K-car steering

monaco75

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Not a C, so Ill post in general.

Looking for y’alls experience. Sabrina’s ‘85 Caravelle is devolving quite the shudder while turning the wheels. Mostly at idle, and turning to the right.

Noticed the steering fluid was a little low, so added some, with no difference. Everything looks right to me underneath... Never dealt with steering racks before with my trucks, and old C’s lol.

Would the rack going out cause a shutter while turning? The wheels still turn fine, just vibrates pretty heavily when you get close/to full lock, with no noise.

Thanks!

C14481FB-912E-4B23-8896-E99816B2BE15.jpeg
 
If the shudder is while in motion, check CV joints. See what the boots look like to start.
 
I can't help you with the shutter, but 20 years ago if you didn't get a Chrysler rack, or a Moog reman. rack, you were getting a piece of junk, that may have changed by now, and assuming you are going to change the rack. Just a heads-up that you might want to look into.
 
Try revving the engine a bit when doing it. The rack seals may be leaking internally. Low engine RPM means very little extra pressure and turning wheels at slow speed needs the most assist.
 
If the shudder is while in motion, check CV joints. See what the boots look like to start.

It shudders mainly sitting still while idle-ing. But also does it while in motion.

Boots look alright, and don’t notice any heavy leakage out of them.

I can't help you with the shutter, but 20 years ago if you didn't get a Chrysler rack, or a Moog reman. rack, you were getting a piece of junk, that may have changed by now, and assuming you are going to change the rack. Just a heads-up that you might want to look into.

Yea, I’m wondering how the parts hunt is gonna go. Doing quick searches, there are some aftermarket pieces still out there. Don’t know how good they are though.

Try revving the engine a bit when doing it. The rack seals may be leaking internally. Low engine RPM means very little extra pressure and turning wheels at slow speed needs the most assist.

Revving the engine does seem to help a tiny bit, but it does still do it with higher rpm’s.

Could just be a loose belt. Sometimes you get one that will slip, but not make the typical squealing noise.

Jeff

Belt is good. Just changed em a couple months ago, as the front one tore. Did check it again this go around, but seems fine.
 
How low was the fluid? Ford Explorers are the worst when the system is open up, when refilled they get air in them and they shudder. They have to be bleed with a vacuum pump to draw the air out. Is the shudder worse when cold?
The 80's GM's had a lot of problems with racks, usually hard steering when cold, we called it morning sickness.
Reman steering rack shouldn't be hard to find.
Rock auto has a few options also should be able to get locally
1985 PLYMOUTH CARAVELLE 2.2L 135cid L4 Rack and Pinion | RockAuto

If you need to change it you need to identify if it's a TRW or Saginaw rack
 
How low was the fluid? Ford Explorers are the worst when the system is open up, when refilled they get air in them and they shudder. They have to be bleed with a vacuum pump to draw the air out. Is the shudder worse when cold?
The 80's GM's had a lot of problems with racks, usually hard steering when cold, we called it morning sickness.
Reman steering rack shouldn't be hard to find.
Rock auto has a few options also should be able to get locally
1985 PLYMOUTH CARAVELLE 2.2L 135cid L4 Rack and Pinion | RockAuto

If you need to change it you need to identify if it's a TRW or Saginaw rack

I was thinking air in the system as well.
 
They will also shudder if the fluid is degraded due to age or water intrusion. Fluid can start to foam and cause the chattering, try changing the fluid and see if that helps first and move on from there. Air bubbles in the system due to a low fluid level can also cause the shudder, so be sure to run multiple lock to lock turns on the steering wheel to purge the system once you change the oil.

Dave
 
A bottle of Lucas Power Steering conditioner wouldn't hurt either. I am one who doesn't believe in a "mechanic in a bottle" fix but I have had good luck with Lucas products. I had an '88 Reliant a few years back and when I replaced the pressure line I refilled it with Lucas and topped it off with P/S fluid. After a little driving the steering felt smoother than it ever had. I never did replace the rack or P/S pump on that car. All situations are different. Start with simple things first and go from there. A failing P/S pump could give you those symptoms too. You may have to put a pressure gauge on your pump to test it. Good luck. Great looking Caravelle by the way.
 
Is the fluid have any air bubbles or a foamy look. If so, check pressure and return hoses condition. Any cracks in the hoses require replacement. If the shudder is happening when turning Right or one direction only and the fluid shows no air bubbles you will need to replace rack and pinion assemb. To remove air bubbles raise the front of the car till the tires are just off the ground. With the eng. off turn the steering wheel slowly all the way to the left and to the right to help expel the air bubbles if present. Rack and pinions are readily available, stay away from Cardone rebuilt units.
 
FIRST thing is to check the color of the fluid. If there's any "red" to it, the whole system needs to be flushed and OEM-spec Chrysler (or the old GM OEM fluid) needs to go back into the system. If vacuum bleeding is needed, that probably needs to happen too.

The OEM psf seemed to have a good bit of "wax" in it, being clear and waxy looking. It can build up, over time, and cause some issues. There should be a "power steering flush" fluid, I believe, to help with this issue.

IN the mean time, get a few quarts of the OEM Chrysler (correct for THAT car, not the newer stuff, unless it supercedes in the Chrysler parts database (not the local dealer's database only), to drain and flush the system, probably twice if needed.

On the GM side of things, there used to be a Valvoline synthetic psf that was recommended for rack issue, in a GM TSB. That particular psf is no longer available, but in the GM Standard Parts books (when we had them), there was a "Cold Climate" psf for Corvettes. I suspect that one is also synthetic. But start with the "normal" OEM stuff first.

Also look for soft spots in the rubber sections of the power steering lines, for good measure.

Keep us posted,
CBODY67
 
Thanks guys, I’ll check out the fluid some more. I didn’t notice any bubbles, or frothing, and the fluid was clear when adding it yesterday.

I did try to burp it after adding some, but I didn’t lift it in the air to do so. Ill give it a try. After talking with my dealer buddy up north, he said it was a somewhat common for the racks on these to go out. Said usually the pumps start to fail, not providing enough pressure, which results in the rack going out soon afterwards.

I believe we have a pump, and rack in our future for some reason lol.
 
If you want this guyz Name & # lemme know Pal. When I bought my '87 TI LeBaron Coupe a couple yearz ago the rack waz bad. I called Larry and had him ship me one of his re-built racks and I sent him mine to trade. FWI, His $ are a bit more then Rock Auto but I know what I'm getting and they're not Cardone crap. My Scamp haz one of his Rackz in it also. I'm sure our friend in Clinton Know Larry too, Jer
 
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