Keep it simple, not stupid.

[3C's & a D?]

Looking for some yeahs or neighs here. When I bought this car a few years back (1970 Newport convertible, 383 originally, semi-fresh 440 now) it had the slightly more modern electronic ignition installed. It worked fine for a while then started going wonky which I confused for a carb. problem. I recently replaced the distributor, which worked for a while, then, no-go. So after much frustration and trying to make this set-up work, I believe the best way out of this and driving my car, is going back to points/pertronics. Pics to come

 

[3C's & a D?]

So I attached the previously disconnected dual wires to the one side of the original and it seems the blue wire snipped from the original single side ballast resistor matches the shown cluster of blues with the yellow marrette. Then off of the original harness there is a violet previously disconnected 20-22 awg linked to the top terminal of the alternator which I am almost certain goes to negative coil. Then off of the original harness, a blue 16-18 awg attached to the taupe on the dual ballast resistor, this I believe goes to the positive side of the coil. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[Davea Lux]

A few things to check:

1.) Get rid of the wire nut connector in favor of a connector block that is preferably equipped with soldered terminals.
2.) Check your ground cable, electronic ignition is very fussy if it does not have a good ground.
3.) Grab a voltmeter, voltage needs to be not less than 12.6 volts or more that 14.4 for the electronics to function properly.
4.) Since the unit works some of the time, you may have a weak coil that is going south after it warms up.
5.) Same could also be true of the control unit for the electronic ignition. Pull its plug and check for corrosion on the terminals.
6.) The two prong ballast resister mounted on you dash appears to be the stock unit that is used with a point setup, usually these are not compatible with electronic ignition.
7.) Look up the wiring diagram for you aftermarket ignition to be sure that it is wired up correctly, some units discard the either the 12v (start) lead or the resistance wire going to the coil in favor of wiring provided by the aftermarket manufacturer.
8.) Check you plug gap and plug wires. If the are not to factory specs, it can cause all sorts of performance issues with electronic ignition.

Dave

 

[3C's & a D?]

Number one, which connector specifically are you referring to? Number two, done. Number three, done. Number four, new coil tested on other Chrysler engines. Number five, done. Number six, that is the original, to the right is the new, and yes NEW dual point ballast resistor. Seven, done. Eight, done. I am at my wits end with this, I am certain on reverted, all will be well. I will let you know. Thanks for your response.

 

[Big_John]

I'm agreeing with Dave on just about everything here. Please take this as being constructive.

The wire nut he mentions is the yellow "marrette". Those connectors have no place in a car.

Quite frankly, there are many guys here that run electronic conversions with no issues. When there is an issue, it's usually a complete failure of one component and easy to find.

IMHO, looking at the wiring in your pics, I would bet that the problems you are experiencing can be traced to the wiring. When I see snipped wires and wire nuts, I immediately start to question if wiring is the problem.

A good analogy is a house. You can put a nice roof on it, but if the foundation is crumbling, the house won't last. Your electronic ignition is built on the foundation of the wiring that connects it. If there's bad wiring, the system isn't going to work.

If you are going to convert back to points, you probably are going to have similar issues.

You can download a FSM with the wiring diagrams here: MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - Service Manuals

Simplified wiring diagram and electronic ignition wiring here: MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - Mopar Wiring / Electrical

 

[67Monaco]

Not to mention grounding to a painted valve cover.

 

[3C's & a D?]

Thanks Davea, and you as well Big_John, no need to worry about offending me. I'm here for constructive criticism. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I agree that the yellow marrette has no business under a hood. It was exposed when I started pulling non original electrical tape off. While it looks terrible, it seemed to be very tight, I took it apart, cleaned it, tightened it back up, checked all other connections, which appeared to be well done. Still no-go. The old distributor had a bent shaft, the new one is not much better, when it was working I couldn't get it to idle evenly and the vacuum advance was problematic. Now I can't even get it started. Do you think soldering that one connection would help? I know many others have done this conversion as an upgrade with no trouble at all. However I feel it is best to go back. I want to drive my car!

 

[3C's & a D?]

Not to mention grounding to a painted valve cover.

Watchu talkin bout Willis? Associated components mentioned are grounded to the firewall.

 

[Snotty]

You replaced the 383 with a 440. Was your car an "L" or an "N" in the VIN, 5th digit?

 

[Wildaugust]

When I look at the pics I too think that it is a wiring issue. I converted my car to electronic a few years back and have been completely satisfied (with it) since.

It looks to me like you're using the 4 pin electronic ignition box. If you are, you could use the single ballast resistor if it still works. You can use the ballast resistor from a points system with the 4 pin box, the resistor is the same. Since you're using the dual resistor, make sure that you're using the low resistance side of the resistor. Use the side of the dual resistor that has closest to .5 Ohms.

I see a black/yellow stripe wire and a brown wire connected to the same terminal of the ignition coil. My diagrams show a black/yellow stripe wire connected to one terminal (-) and the brown wire connected to the other terminal (+), regardless of whether the ignition box is a 4 pin or a 5 pin. In your pic there appears to be a third wire connected to the other side of the coil. (?)

 

[Davea Lux]

When I look at the pics I too think that it is a wiring issue. I converted my car to electronic a few years back and have been completely satisfied (with it) since.

It looks to me like you're using the 4 pin electronic ignition box. If you are, you could use the single ballast resistor if it still works. You can use the ballast resistor from a points system with the 4 pin box, the resistor is the same. Since you're using the dual resistor, make sure that you're using the low resistance side of the resistor. Use the side of the dual resistor that has closest to .5 Ohms.

I see a black/yellow stripe wire and a brown wire connected to the same terminal of the ignition coil. My diagrams show a black/yellow stripe wire connected to one terminal (-) and the brown wire connected to the other terminal (+), regardless of whether the ignition box is a 4 pin or a 5 pin. In your pic there appears to be a third wire connected to the other side of the coil. (?)

Wild august is right, the stripped wire, if it is hooked to the negative terminal of the coil, nothing else should be on this terminal. This wire supplies the ground which fires the coil. The other wires are probably a 12v lead which is used with the point type ignition to start the car. This wire is only active when the key is in the start position.

The other wire normally comes off the ballast resistor when the key is in the run position and provides low voltage to the coil. This is done with the point type ignition so that arcing is reduced on the point set. This makes them last longer. If you have a hot lead hooked to the negative side of the coil, the coil can not fire which would explain the failure to start. This might have also cooked the control unit for the electronic ignition. Correct the wiring defects and see if the car will start.

I suggested soldered connections in the earlier post because that insures a good static free connection which is very important electronic ignition.

Dave

 

[67Monaco]

Watchu talkin bout Willis? Associated components mentioned are grounded to the firewall.

When I first saw this I thought it was grounded to the valve cover. But I see it isn't now that I blowed it up.

 

[LocuMob]

Fixed

 

[70bigblockdodge]

That's probably a tach wire if I had to guess. I will agree the wiring is a mess and that dual ballast is not needed with a 4 pin ECU (most common nowadays)
I would use FSM to get wiring straight like you were going to put points back in and then ignition source the ECU and done eliminate the excess baggage.

 

[Big_John]

I will agree the wiring is a mess and that dual ballast is not needed with a 4 pin ECU (most common nowadays)

If you look at the top two pics, only one half of the ballast resistor is connected.

I would use FSM to get wiring straight like you were going to put points back in

Yep! The other, possibly better option, is to just to replace the engine wiring and get it over. A good used one or maybe spring for a new harness.. which you probably could get with the electronic ignition wiring already in place.

and then ignition source the ECU and done eliminate the excess baggage.

Sure... whatever you say.... LOL!

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Sure... whatever you say.... LOL!

Kiss, my 70 just has a 4 pin ECU added to original system his looks like someone added a 5pin ECU, abandon the 70 wiring making a rat's nest. Remove what is not original then add the electronic back in, done. Some heat shrink and solder and a few hours you could make a nice job out of it and not really spend a lot of $.
I would not use petronix because when it s#-$ the bed your stuck, and carrying a spare is basically a whole second kit, I would have just left the points easier and cheaper spares.

 

[Big_John]

Kiss, my 70 just has a 4 pin ECU added to original system his looks like someone added a 5pin ECU, abandon the 70 wiring making a rat's nest. Remove what is not original then add the electronic back in, done. Some heat shrink and solder and a few hours you could make a nice job out of it and not really spend a lot of $.
I would not use petronix because when it s#-$ the bed your stuck, and carrying a spare is basically a whole second kit, I would have just left the points easier and cheaper spares.

I agree with you... The Pertronix stuff is great when it works, but like everything else electronic, sudden failure is always a possibility. Then again, it used to be that every auto store had Mopar ECU etc. in stock, but now I think it's prudent to carry a spare when traveling.

I waffle back and forth on soldering connections... It's a good idea if you can solder... and the old wire is simply harder to solder because of the built up oxidation...but there is a reason why aircraft uses crimped connections only.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I waffle back and forth on soldering connections... It's a good idea if you can solder... and the old wire is simply harder to solder because of the built up oxidation...but there is a reason why aircraft uses crimped connections only

If wires are that oxidized then I would be looking at replacement. Yes unshielded crimp connectors and heat shrink are fine also. 25 years ago the FAA was still requiring learning of tying and lacing wire looms so their thinking is not always 100% logical.

 

[Turboomni]

May I ask a question then. Is there any difference in performance with a working points ignition compared to electronic ignition on a stock 440 V8? Are hot starts any better with electronic ignitions for example? I run points and it seems good but I don't put a ton of miles on the car either.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

May I ask a question then. Is there any difference in performance with a working points ignition compared to electronic ignition on a stock 440 V8? Are hot starts any better with electronic ignitions for example? I run points and it seems good but I don't put a ton of miles on the car either.

Really just maintenance, points due wear, electronic has no rubbing parts. High rpm the coil does not have enough time to saturate (dwell) to make a energetic enough spark and you can get a high rpm miss that's why Hemi cars had dual point distributors to increase dwell time. One set is timed slightly behind the other so only when the instant they are both open does field collapse and fire spark plug ( one set is closing the other is opening creating a very short interruption in current).
If you stay below 5000 rpm and adjust them every couple thousand miles you should never have a problem.