Mobile One Synthetic or Something Else?

Clay Harrison

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So tomorrow we begin the process of rebuilding the 66 440. Going back 40 over, all else stock with a very mild cam. I know you folks have probably beat this subject to death but I'm wondering if using the Mobile One Synthetic is a bad idea from jump on a freshly rebuilt big block?
 
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Or....

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I would suggest either Shell Rotella 15-40 or Valvoline 15-40. These are all fleet rated oils and are readily available with the high zinc and high zddp so they are compatible with flat tappet engines. Even these modern flat tappet oils have a lower zinc content than was available 40 years ago, so you can safely add some extra additive for maximum protection. As 66Newyorker has noted, modern synthetics are designed for roller tappet engines and will not protect a flat tappet system.

Dave
 
When putting in the cam, don't forget that the block-side of the timing sprocket and the timing chain can stand some of the moly paste too. Pouring some of the assembly lube on the chain/sprocket assy can't hurt either. All of those places get "splash" lube as the cam/lifters do.

They used to not recommend any syn oil until after the first oil change, but then GM started using Mobil 1 as factory fill on Corvettes. Seems like Driven has some break-in oil now? Allegedly, the syn oil wouldn't "wear-in" the cylinder bores like a less-slick dino oil would? Wouldn't hurt to use the 15W40 diesel oil (a viscosity specific to diesels only, so it's not confused with normal 10W40 oil) and then switch to 5W-40 (diesel only viscosity) synthetic after 4000 miles or so.

Personally, I still like the diesel-spec oils for their higher zddp content, although it's down to about 1200ppm rather than the prior 1400ppm about 10 yrs ago. Whether Rotella T or Delo 400, readily available at discount chains, which is a plus to me.

Keep us posted on how it all works out!
CBODY67
 
OK I have a tub of this moly. I'll stop on the way to the garage in the morning and pick up the Rotella T (I used to run this in my VW TDI), some straight axle grease, an oil can, vasoline, MEK, silicone, and the anti seize.

I have a copy of Don Taylor's book and we'll follow it by the letter.

Thanks again for answering my redundant questions!

I'll post pics tomorrow evening. This is a good project to begin during a snow storm.....

Moly.jpg
 
OK I have a tub of this moly. I'll stop on the way to the garage in the morning and pick up the Rotella T (I used to run this in my VW TDI), some straight axle grease, an oil can, vasoline, MEK, silicone, and the anti seize.

I have a copy of Don Taylor's book and we'll follow it by the letter.

Thanks again for answering my redundant questions!

I'll post pics tomorrow evening. This is a good project to begin during a snow storm.....

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That ain't breakin lube......... Or maybe it'll work fine - I'm not really positive, but I wouldn't use that inside my engine.
 
That ain't breakin lube......... Or maybe it'll work fine - I'm not really positive, but I wouldn't use that inside my engine.
So does anyone know of a product that would be available at a local auto parts store? I'd like to get started tomorrow and frikkin Rockauto isn't gonna be of any use to me by then?
 
So does anyone know of a product that would be available at a local auto parts store? I'd like to get started tomorrow and frikkin Rockauto isn't gonna be of any use to me by then?

AutoZone sells the Lucas Oil semi synthetic assembly lube. You can use this product to lube the cam and all bearings etc., works on pretty much anything inside the engine. It is a high zinc, very slick product and reasonably priced. If your camshaft came with a manufacturer's break in lube, use that, otherwise use the Lucas Oil product.

Dave
 
I'll look for the Lucas assembly lube. The book says to "coat all cam lobes and cam bearing surfaces with moly (or white lithium) grease" so we assumed we had what we needed.
 
I'll look for the Lucas assembly lube. The book says to "coat all cam lobes and cam bearing surfaces with moly (or white lithium) grease" so we assumed we had what we needed.

Engines used to be put together that way, How old is the book that you are using? Today's synthetic assembly lubricants have much better cling, higher melt points and a much lower coefficient of friction on moving parts.

Dave
 
I use Lubriplate Lithium grease. Cream colored and in a squeeze tube.

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I would break it in on a conventional 15w40 and then if synthetic is the way you want to go, a diesel spec 5w40 like Rotella T6 or Mobil1 Delvac.

There are a lot of synthetic factory fills now but unless you know the type of ring and cylinder hone finish they are using, I would use conventional oil just to avoid any potential break in issues.

Bobistheoilguy website has everything you never wanted to know about lubricating oils.

A Review of Mineral and Synthetic Base Oils - Bob is the Oil Guy

If you troll thru the oil analysis forums you will find several of the 15w40 conventional oils still have upwards of 1200 ppm zinc and phosphorus which is what you want for flat tappet break in.

Some of the diesel synthetics are still around 1000 ppm which I think is adequate to keep a properly broke in cam alive especially with the "slipperyer" synthetic oil.

There is one analysis posted for a Mobil1 racing 0w30 that has 2200 ppm zinc and phos.

Kevin
 
And thanks for all the help guys!!!

Just as a follow up, the white lithium grease was used by engine builders on camshafts for decades and does work. I switched to the synthetic stuff because it was in my view superior and a lot less messy to use. Either will work for you.

Dave
 
I would use a "break-in" oil specifically formulated for the engine on initial start up. Brad Penn and Joe Gibbs Driven offers break-in oil.

Remember to prime the engine/oil pump. When you see oil at the pushrods, stop, then turn the engine 1/4 turn and repeat. Do this for a complete 360 degree spin. This gets oil to the entire system and works out any air.

Here is a break-in procedure once engine is first fired up and then when you take it to the road. https://www.jegs.com/InstallationInstructions/0/059/059-hp291p.pdf

Here is a 2017 study on different types of oil and wear characteristics in a modern engine. What may be most important is the Zinc (ZN) content. Not the T6 Shell Rotella as compared to others. https://jalopnik.com/why-expensive-oil-is-a-waste-of-money-1797241527

Synthetic oils are better used with tight clearances and perhaps no so much with the recommended clearances that engine specs of the day had us doing. Found this snippet that suggests synthetic oils may not be good for older engines because it is "slipperier," which means it may not cling so well where we need it to cling. I have read this of synthetic gear oils used in the older type manual transmissions and that it lacks the "cushion" that conventional oils build up as they cling to the gears - and you get gears clashing and harder shifting.

"While synthetic oil generally protects better over a longer time, it flows more smoothly than conventional mineral oils – and for an older engine, this can mean a greater chance of grinding gears. For this reason, most manufacturers and mechanic recommend conventional oil for owners of older and more experienced engines. The slower flow of a conventional oil promises better lubrication for aging engines and can mean the difference between your engine lasting for the long haul and giving up before it is really ready to go."

I have also read that the synthetic oils, because they are more slick than conventional oils, can seep out from bearing surfaces if a car sets for extended periods - like when some mothball their cars for the winter or perhaps only run them after sitting a few weeks at a time. Again, might be due to larger bearing specs/clearances often associated with our older cars.

So it seems as always, there are indeed many opinions and a host of comparisons to support or refute the use of conventional oils or synthetic/synthetic blended oils. I personally use conventional oils in my older cars. Many of the oils still have the Zinc in them and are said to be OK with older engines. Too much zinc can also be problematic. Rislone makes a zinc additive and I have used it in several of my older cars that use conventional oils. Perhaps you won't need the entire bottle each time, but I can't see how it will hurt if you added 1/2 bottle to each oil change - unless you know the oil is formulated for older engines like the Brad Penn/Joe Gibbs Driven, or the Rotella.
 
99% of all flat tappet failures can usually be traced back to a lifter not turning in its bore.

After you assemble the valve train, turn the engine over. All 16 lifters should rotate like they are gear driven. If any are slow or sporadic/don't turn at all, try swapping holes. If it doesn't spin in a different hole, replace it. If the one that spun OK from the different hole doesn't spin in it's new home, you need to check that bore for proper clearance or other problems.

Under no circumstances fire the engine until they all spin. Instant cam failure will result.

Kevin
 
All engines my buddy James and I had done all had new cams.
For break in we simply used 10w30 conventional oil and a full bottle of either STP or AC Delco engine treatment.
We leave the oil in for 500 miles and change it
. My old New Yorker I did synthetic in the 440.
The Boab and Waygun run Penzoil High Mileage 10w30 with half bottle of Lucas.
As I mentioned in another oil related thread, my choices are based on availability anywhere since I do a ton of driving with my cars sometimes a thousand miles at a time.
Try buying the special high zinc oils at a gas stop off the Penn State Turnpike....Didn't think so...
 
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