Oiling pushrods

[Lilbluecoupe71]

I began taking the heads off my 440 to swap on some mopar aluminum heads and tti headers and I found on cylinder number 3 the pushrod ends and rockers on just that one cylinder show signs of oil starvation. I see the ends are welded shut. My question is would pushrods with oil holes help prevent future issues with dry rockers? Or will it cause a low oil pressure concern With 16 more "oil leaks"?

 

[furious70]

What valve train are you using with the new heads? What cam?

 

[Lilbluecoupe71]

The cam that's currently in the car is a comp xe 274. As far as valve train have not bought that yet. Currently putting the alumium heads on to measure piston to valve clearance.

 

[413]

NO. Mopars oil from the rocker arm shafts, there is a small hole in the rocker arm at the push rod hole to lube that.

Your rocker arm shaft looks rusted. Are the oiling holes filled with crud?

The ends are not welded shut, they were never open.
This is not a GM, no pushrods oiling.

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

You got a oil passage restricted or clogged. No need for for changing the pushrods to oilers your problem is in heads or block. Check your service manual for proper 440 oiling, here's one for a 360 (all about the same)

 

[68PK21 440.6bbl]

Here's a diagram for the 440 engine, pay attention to the #4 cam bearing as this on has to be indexed.

 

[Davea Lux]

Most likely, if only #3 is showing distress, the oil hole for that rocker in the rocker shaft is plugged. A misaligned cam bearing would starve the whole set of rockers for oil. Pull the rocker shaft, it is probably full of crud. You will probably need to replace the shaft as the dry rocker has probably cut a groove into the shaft. Be sure to also replace that rocker as well if you are not going to replace the whole set as it is going to be badly worn as well. If you are replacing the camshaft with a high lift unit, the rockers should be replaced with ones that are compatible with the lift of the cam.

Dave

 

[Lilbluecoupe71]

Rocker holes look clean. Every other rocker in the engine is clean and has oil on it. Seems to be isolated to number 3. This motor was actually rebuilt a year ago. Has a set of kb pistons in it. Will likely go with a set of 440 source roller rockers since this camshaft isn't stock

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Push rods are probably too long or holes in the shaft are clogged/compromised.

 

[5wndwcpe]

Rocker holes look clean. Every other rocker in the engine is clean and has oil on it. Seems to be isolated to number 3. This motor was actually rebuilt a year ago. Has a set of kb pistons in it. Will likely go with a set of 440 source roller rockers since this camshaft isn't stock

You might want to do a little research on that first. 440 Source rockers have been known to have some issues.

 

[Mike66Chryslers]

All I see on 440source.com are aluminum rocker arms. I've read that you shouldn't use aluminum rockers on a street car. Aluminum will eventually fracture and fail.

When I was putting my stroker together, I thought I could save some money by buying CAT Performance cast steel rockers, which looked like the Comp cast steel rockers at half the price. Well they failed on the dyno and did about $2000 damage to my engine, mostly bent valves and damaged valve guides. It could've been a lot worse. After that I replaced them with a set of Comp rockers.

For a new build I may be tempted to use these PRW rocker arms. I'm sure they're still made in China like the CAT ones, but have bronze bushings which mine did not (and would have probably prevented their failure), better attachment hardware, and appear to be finished better. They're only about $200 less than the Comp ones though, $500 versus $700.
3244011 - Big Block Mopar 383-440, 1.5 Ratio, Complete Kit

 

[Lilbluecoupe71]

I was actually just looking at a similar set, likely the same parts on manciniracing.com
MRE B/RB Stainless Shaft Mount Rocker Arm Set

 

[Mike66Chryslers]

I was actually just looking at a similar set, likely the same parts on manciniracing.com
MRE B/RB Stainless Shaft Mount Rocker Arm Set

The Mancini part number is "PRW3244011" so I would say yes they are very likely the same ones.

 

[stubs300]

The cam that's currently in the car is a comp xe 274. As far as valve train have not bought that yet. Currently putting the alumium heads on to measure piston to valve clearance.

Your problem has been the fact that you started out by not following note 37 for that cam to begin with. See the bottom of the page! 21-224-4(Single Bolt) - Xtreme Energy™ Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts

Will likely go with a set of 440 source roller rockers since this camshaft isn't stock

This is the most intelligent thing you've said yet. Roller or not, adjustable's are the way to go as mentioned above and from Comp's tech. Good Luck!

 

[Mike66Chryslers]

Your problem has been the fact that you started out by not following note 37 for that cam to begin with. See the bottom of the page! 21-224-4(Single Bolt) - Xtreme Energy™ Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshafts



This is the most intelligent thing you've said yet. Roller or not, adjustable's are the way to go as mentioned above and from Comp's tech. Good Luck!

Read a little closer @stubs300 ... Note 37 "adjustable valvetrain required" is only applicable if the cam is used with anti-pump-up lifters.

 

[stubs300]

I don't see where it says that? Besides, he shows a picture of stock rockers and that cam requires adjustable. I must be missing something or you are?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Metallurgy 101, with sliding surfaces one must be softer than the other otherwise galling and or microwelding will take place. The stock stamped steel rockers were softer material than the shafts. With the comp stainless rockers they are harder than the shafts. Ok, with some mild spring pressures. Will destroy the shafts with killer springs (not the level used here).
The fix is to have them bushed with bronze inserts which adds $ and thins the steel section, both not good.
Aluminum rockers are good but will fail eventually due to work hardening, should never be a issue with hydraulic cam spring pressures. Excellent aluminum rockers such as T&D almost never fail even with 600+ pound valve spring pressures, but prepare to use your highest limit credit card.
Moral of the story is...
You can't put 2 hard metals together under higher loads with intermittent oiling. A failure will result.
To the OP. You should just put stock type stamped rockers with that cam. I stand by my original diag of long pushrods or clogged supply holes

 

[Mike66Chryslers]

I don't see where it says that? Besides, he shows a picture of stock rockers and that cam requires adjustable. I must be missing something or you are?

It is definitely you who is missing something. Look at the text in brackets after "Installation Notes". It says: "These notes apply to the above recommended components with the trailing installation note numbers." Now see "Lifter kit" and then beside part number 867-16 there is [37]? That means refer to note 37 specifically when using those lifters, which are anti-pumpup lifters.

Do you know how anti-pumpup lifters work? You need to set the preload to exactly zero, unlike regular lifters where you must set some preload so the plungers don't hammer against the keepers. You must run adjustable rockers to get the preload to exactly zero. You COULD set preload with those lifters, but that would defeat the purpose of buying them.

No that cam does not "require" adjustable rockers. In fact @70bigblockdodge is recommending to use stock-type stamped rockers, the exact opposite of your advice. LOL

 

[Lilbluecoupe71]

stubs, you are correct in that comp tech suggest adjustable rockers are required, but this is isolated to one cylinder, if it was a alignment concern of some sort, all the rockers and pushrods would show the same wear/damage. im likely going to swap the damaged components out with the spares I have, run it and double check for any abnormal wear. here is a good article on a budget 383 build, has a larger lift cam xe284h with stock rockers.
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/new-life-for-mopar-383-big-block/

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Anti pump up lifters are to rev high when using a hydraulic cam. Is that the goal hear? In a C body high revving is usually not hand in hand.if your not restricted by rules to use a hydraulic cam and you want higher rpm, a mechanical cam is a better option.
The OP said he had KB pistons which are cast, and I would not push them much over 6k so the need for anti pump up lifters is moot.