Power steering pump mount.....nutz

66furys

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Anyone understand what Mopar had in mind with this two piece mount for the Power steer pump.....seems like a scissor, with one on the engine, one on the pump that has no lock mechanism. But a rubber bumper between the scissor to take the adjustment pressure. Mine is obviously not complete, and cannot be tight at all. I have jammed a rubber bumper into the void, to no avail. Anyone have any idea how this idiotic arrangement is supposed to work. Thanks for thoughts. I will need to rebuild mine, since it is not smooth running, but chugs....I am thinking that one or so of the slippers has failed....still pumps but vibrates and shakes badly. But, would like to correct the mount as I can, if I can figure it out. thanks
 
Bob Merritt explains the mount here. Bob isn't near this exciting in person....

 
Some perceived that particular bracket arrangement to be "not what they were expecting", as under load the pump would lean into the belt, then relax when the load was gone. Worked great . . . as long as you didn't try to adjust the belt tight (like Ford and GM power steering belts, which ALWAYS squeaked under load). With the bracket adjusted to specs, probably a bit looser than you might expect, the belt lasted forever. No squeaks or sqwauks. Even when the pump was sitting a bit sideways on the motor!!!

BUT, as I determined way back in the later 1960s, after the workings of that bracketry had been explained to me by Chrysler service techs, too many people expected the belt to be adjusted like a GM belt, so they went to a solid mount bracket. One of Chrysler's unique engineering feats was replaced by a "common bracket" that everybody knew what it was. Oh well . . .

ONE thing I learned long ago, "Never suspect something is "junk" just because one might not fully understand it". This was especially true when knowing the product (AND how it worked) was important to getting the best performance from the product. Chrysler, like Ford and GM, had their own unique way of doing things. In engineering and design, especially. Cars certainly were NOT "all the same" back then, unlike in more modern times. Which is one reason I like Chryslers so much, because they were not the same as the others, many times much better than the others might ever suspect. FWIW

Obviously, that Chrysler power steering pump bracketry was more expensive to produce than a normal bracket, which came later. One little thing which got changed in order to use the more generic Saginaw power steering pump, most probably.

Thanks to @Big_John for posting the link to that Chrysler MasterTech video.

Happy Holidays!
CBODY67
 
"Never suspect something is "junk" just because one might not fully understand it"
Truer words have never been spoken. I see this an awful lot.... Often the lack of understanding lets someone justify buying an "upgrade" with the lemmings, that also don't get it, cheering them on.

BTW, not a Chrysler tech video, but a local 300 collector that has some really great tech videos showing him working on these great cars. I've been to his place a couple times now (so has @Ripinator ) and it's impressive. If you go through his videos, you'll even find an appearance by yours truly... https://www.youtube.com/@300rcm1
 
BTW, not a Chrysler tech video, but a local 300 collector that has some really great tech videos showing him working on these great cars. I've been to his place a couple times now (so has @Ripinator ) and it's impressive. If you go through his videos, you'll even find an appearance by yours truly... https://www.youtube.com/@300rcm1
Thanks @Big_John for that source clarification. Going to that link, then clicking on "Videos", brings up a massive number of videos of Chrysler 300 Club, Intl. meets, many "repair" videos, and others of interest. Videos up to 12 years old.

Take care,
CBODY67
 
Some perceived that particular bracket arrangement to be "not what they were expecting", as under load the pump would lean into the belt, then relax when the load was gone. Worked great . . . as long as you didn't try to adjust the belt tight (like Ford and GM power steering belts, which ALWAYS squeaked under load). With the bracket adjusted to specs, probably a bit looser than you might expect, the belt lasted forever. No squeaks or sqwauks. Even when the pump was sitting a bit sideways on the motor!!!

BUT, as I determined way back in the later 1960s, after the workings of that bracketry had been explained to me by Chrysler service techs, too many people expected the belt to be adjusted like a GM belt, so they went to a solid mount bracket. One of Chrysler's unique engineering feats was replaced by a "common bracket" that everybody knew what it was. Oh well . . .

ONE thing I learned long ago, "Never suspect something is "junk" just because one might not fully understand it". This was especially true when knowing the product (AND how it worked) was important to getting the best performance from the product. Chrysler, like Ford and GM, had their own unique way of doing things. In engineering and design, especially. Cars certainly were NOT "all the same" back then, unlike in more modern times. Which is one reason I like Chryslers so much, because they were not the same as the others, many times much better than the others might ever suspect. FWIW

Obviously, that Chrysler power steering pump bracketry was more expensive to produce than a normal bracket, which came later. One little thing which got changed in order to use the more generic Saginaw power steering pump, most probably.

Thanks to @Big_John for posting the link to that Chrysler MasterTech video.

Happy Holidays!
CBODY67

I prefer the self adjusting mount, and having recently rebuilt a pump, I purchased a nice new little snubber rubber for that bracket and am delighted with how the power steering works. This belt has 5 years on it, though one can barely see use on it. I just follow the directions, conservatively, putting no more than ~35 ft-# on the little torque adjuster. Leaking fell to a couple tablespoons weekly. I also learned how to snug the 3/8" hose inside a 5/8" near my filter, meant for the older pump, saving some $ on filters. Nice to have the proper vintage stuff on the car working now.
 
25+ years ago I thought that bracketry was a problem, and only in the last 2-3 years have I learned of the slick engineering they put into it, into something so lackluster as the PS pump.
Another example of good Chrysler engineering.

I said that just to say this:
After I learned about this engineered bracket, I realized I've changed lots of alternator and AC belts due to poor condition, but never a PS belt (on this bracketry).
I've put new belts on for PS only because I was doing other belts, and it seemed like a prudent thing to do.
But never because the belt was worn.
 
Absolutely the best feedback on a silly problem....very interesting points, I certainly appreciate them. I have not gone over all of the references yet, but does anyone have pointers to the rubber bumper.....mine totally gone, so I used a piece of hose in there. I suspect mine is a problem due to the pump, but will need to address what the two brackets bump together on at some point. Thanks again for the many great technical points, very helpful. I had looked in my manual, and on line, and did not find much....so all the knowledge here great.
 
Thanks @Big_John for that source clarification. Going to that link, then clicking on "Videos", brings up a massive number of videos of Chrysler 300 Club, Intl. meets, many "repair" videos, and others of interest. Videos up to 12 years old.

Take care,
CBODY67
The 300 club tech pages are pretty good too. TECH PAGE
 
Yo FuryFan.....I see you have 15 inch rims....pretty wide ones, behind the skirts. I would like to go to 15's on my car....any thoughts on the rim and tire sizes....I dont have to have the largest. Thought I would get one rim....was thinking 6.5 and putting on a tire to see how it fits. But, some experience appreciated. Sorry to go out of bounds on the thread.
 
Absolutely the best feedback on a silly problem....very interesting points, I certainly appreciate them. I have not gone over all of the references yet, but does anyone have pointers to the rubber bumper.....mine totally gone, so I used a piece of hose in there. I suspect mine is a problem due to the pump, but will need to address what the two brackets bump together on at some point. Thanks again for the many great technical points, very helpful. I had looked in my manual, and on line, and did not find much....so all the knowledge here great.
Years ago I shoved a small block of wood in there to take out the slop (had no long-term ill effedts)
Then I learned the actual engineering, so I now fit some rubber in there.
Be aware that the pivot-point of this bracket may be an issue nowadays - the hole in the bracket could be worn oversized.
But TBH, unless the metal is ready to tear thru, I doubt it matters much for the yearly mileage our cars get.

I reworked one of these pump setups recently, and cut a piece of heater hose, didn't like the result, and stuffed a piece of fuel hose in there to stiffen it up. (like a big Ho-Ho)
You can cut length-wise slices out of the hose to 'tune' it also.
Just make sure there's some squish to it and it'll probably be fine?
 
Yo FuryFan.....I see you have 15 inch rims....pretty wide ones, behind the skirts. I would like to go to 15's on my car....any thoughts on the rim and tire sizes....I dont have to have the largest. Thought I would get one rim....was thinking 6.5 and putting on a tire to see how it fits. But, some experience appreciated. Sorry to go out of bounds on the thread.
No biggie on the sidetrack - it's your thread!

You can easily fit standard 7" rims on there, factory ones have ~4.25" backspace.

I am using 8" Ramcharger rims, which put the extra 1" to the outside. I had to get a slightly narrower rearend (used a 67-ish B-body I think) and the leafspring relocation brackets (not the ones that put the springs in the framerail, but the ones that move the next to the framerail). The narrower axle just about fell in place as much as any axle ever does). IIRC the rearend was about 3/4" narrower each side. I researched vs the Mopar Performance axle chart and found a few of them were incorrect.

For you - you could put a 255-60-15 on a standard 7" rim and it will fit OK but the fenderskirt latches might need verified - I ran that size on the back of my 65SF years ago, but don't recall if I used the skirts or not. Ironically, the same car now sits on 235-70-15 (more sidewall bulge) and the skirt will fit on the driverside, but the latch hits the sidewall on the passenger side. :rolleyes:

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There's a 15 in. x 8 in., with 4.50 in. Backspace, and 15 in. x 7 in., with 4.00 in. Backspace,.
Either of those is in the ballpark of factory, but tire series/sidewall bulge is a wildcard.

There are a number of tire-size threads on here, so read other folks experience also.

And remember - wheel width is measured between the bead lips, not the overall rim width. Overall width is always 1" greater.
 
Well, after all of this I have more work to do. Will get a cheap wheel in the size and a used tire to try to see if something in that neighborhood will fit......thanks. Also have to get this pump rebuilt.....a few special tools and I am not as brave as years ago. Then, will fight the bumper issue. Thanks again for the help. On one more point here on the wheels.....I almost fell over laughing when I pulled off the rear wheel the other day. I had removed the front ones to tighten up the very loose wheel bearings...someone had had no idea. But, both sides RH threads....interesting to me since in my youth I had owned both a 53 and a 57. I was wondering but knew that the finally wised up. Then, I pulled off the left rear.....and found I was tightening....LH threads and one had been broken off. RH and LH front and rear.....what in the world. I got some RH new studs that will go in there.....and have NO ideal what they did on the other side....probably RH on the right rear....but on this car, nothing can be assumed. Still learning something every day....with a laugh. And before someone says look at the manual....I did that afterward.....and not one mention that I have found.
 
Older than the early 70s, you have LH threads on LH side of the car. Except 2 of my cars have LH on the LR only - due to front disc swap.

Like the PS belt, I've never had a bad pump - only ones that leaked.
Re-sealing them requires no special tools and the seal kits are pretty cheap.
It does take some savvy to R&R the sheetmetal reservoir without boogering it, though.
 
I bought this car because it was mostly like a survivor, and the rust was not into the larger structures, only a couple pans. And, the speedo has 69k which could be correct, but as I have gotten into the car, I now doubt that. The rear pumpkin was totally loose and leaking....who would have totally loose nuts on the rear center section. Once into the dash, I fould lots of previous very bad changes to wiring, including the use of household wire nuts, and open wires twisted. And of course, there were a couple sections of the main harness that had been on fire....open wire with totally burned insulation. And, who would guess that both the PS pump and gear have issues. When running this pump vibrates heavily, like a piston pump, not as it should....suspect a bad slipper?? And, the gear cannot be adjusted to remove gear lash, and on top of that, the input shaft will move in and out about a quarter inch when turned manually, engine off. And, when I move the input by hand, the gear lash will clunk, with the adjuster tight, tight. I found several previous owners, most had not driven this one for about 15 or more years....mainly due to the great work on the car, imo.
 
Gotta love finding wire nuts on car wiring. :wideyed:
Maybe post a Wanted for a PS pump?
Were any of the pumpkin nuts a lock-nut type? (not the nylon, but should be distorted or thread-crimping style)
 
I am skeert to try a used one....am looking for rebuilder or rebuilt or replacement new, like Cardone. But, I can tell you that there are a lot of options, many of which say they should fit, but obviously will not. So, may just send mine off. And no, thru the grease, I think all nuts were std. But, many were more than a turn loose, and the grease, it was a leakin. Amazing. But this is like the front wheel bearings....what idiot would put the locks back on with the hub totally loose and the nuts more than a turn out......I dont know.
 
I am skeert to try a used one....am looking for rebuilder or rebuilt or replacement new, like Cardone. But, I can tell you that there are a lot of options, many of which say they should fit, but obviously will not. So, may just send mine off. And no, thru the grease, I think all nuts were std. But, many were more than a turn loose, and the grease, it was a leakin. Amazing. But this is like the front wheel bearings....what idiot would put the locks back on with the hub totally loose and the nuts more than a turn out......I dont know.
I had a pump rebuilt by these guys: Power steering pump rebuilders — PowerSteering.com
 
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