Rant ON... National Anthem...

[cantflip]

So about a year ago some guy, most of us never heard of, got his 15 minutes of fame. By not participating in the traditional pregame National Anthem Salute to the Flag.

To be honest, I thought him an *******, and moved on. As the media attention and the "what about me" crowd started making this more prevalent. I found it difficult to ignore.

I will admit to not being a diehard football fan, but usually follow my hometown team and have been a loyal fan. I am unimpressed by hiding in the locker room as much as I am unimpressed by teams locking arms. Those who feel they want to take a knee or sit this one out, welcome to America... you do have that freedom. The National Football League also has the right to pass rules and punishments for your lack of participation.

Kudos to Donald Trump for addressing this, but I am having a very hard time trying to figure out why he should have had to. I don't think it is very dignified that our POTUS has to address this sort of thing. The NFL is now high ranking on my personal shitlist.

I will agree wholeheartedly that this is a disrespectful act when done in the presence of any military personal... But, I never served, and I find it to be a disrespectful act too. Let's take the military argument out of this for a moment.

I am a traditional Heinz 57 heritage American citizen. I had a grandfather who was first generation from Germany, and a great grandfather who was an Irish immigrant. I know that there is also some English and Scottish in there... but am far from sure about the entire bloodline.

I do have heritage dating back to revolutionary war and my most famous family tree member is Betsy Ross. I am not a direct descendant.

My significant other is a naturalized citizen who escaped a communist country when she was two years old. Not only is she American, But she was raised to be an American by hardworking Cuban parents who wanted her to love this country and its customs. I was very touched when Thanksgiving diner at the in-laws became traditional turkey in my honor. Vivian and her siblings were encouraged to speak the language growing up, and while bilingual, English is their first language.

As a loyal citizen and proud tax paying member of our society, I find this display to be a direct insult. While I am sure there must be an appeal to those who's idea of "The American Way" is to live on public assistance and search the system for loopholes that bring more free money... I find it all disgusting. I don't want to pay more taxes, but I don't want to work at not paying them either. I don't mean that all folks on public assistance are bad, but I have seen how it caters to the scumbag element. Sorry, I'm drifting...

I'm an American, this is disrespectful to me. To those who are disrespecting their own flag... What do you respect? What do you stand for? While not perfect, this is our country... Dividing it won't make it better. I'm not calling for any counter protest, but IDK when I'll be watching my next NFL game. I am tired of being disrespected in my own country for my patriotism, and I sympathize with with all of you who feel the same.

 

[DocMcNeedy]

I'm a diehard Minnesota Viking fan...not to the point of hating the Green Bay Packers or painting my face, etc...I really enjoy the game...the strategies of the game...not so much the peripheral noise, media and agendas...I long for the days of Alan Page, Jim Marshall, Carl Eller and Gary Larsen and watching them in the 1970's as a kid even in Kentucky...it was simpler it seemed then...my wife asked me to boycott the NFL even this morning already...But, I like to listen on local radio anyway and work in the garage. I wish politics didn't enter the entertainment world.

 

[crv]

As an outsider looking in, while it is a complex issue, it doesn't seem complicated to establish what's what.
Here's my take; this is a race problem, pure and simple, White Americans refer to themselves as simply Americans, but then there are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Native Americans, Asian Americans, etc., and all those people seem to reject everything that is associated with America and Americans, (that is, they dislike the fact that the nation was founded by and for White people) except of course, all the benefits that come with living there, especially benefits obtained for free.
People on the left have an agenda, headed by the Democratic Party and in conjunction with the media, BLM, Antifa and other groups on the political left (many, if not all, funded by another ethnic racial group, wealthy Jewish people), which is to do away with the Western culture present within the USA, something they obviously associate with 'racist' White people. This is the reason for the banning of the Confederate flag, the defacing, destruction and removal of statues, the burning of the flag, the criticism of and the attempt to change or do away with the Constitution, etc. Soon there will be people openly stating that they are not Americans, for 'America itself is a symbol of racial hatred where all Whites are evil Nazis' or rubbish to that effect.
Sure, there are Whites disrespecting the American anthem and flag too, but those are either misguided individuals who should know better or they are communists.
Black people who maintain that they are oppressed need to look at places like Chicago or Detroit, where most blacks murdered are killed by other blacks, blacks are targeted by the Police because black crime is highly disproportionate to their numbers, of course, the fact that the majority of people shot dead by Police officers in the USA are White, is not mentioned.
The main question is; if all these people who say they are victims, who make it clear that they hate America, if they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just leave?

 

[polara71]

Welcome back Cantflip

 

[shooter65]

I quit watching professional sports many years ago. If I wanted to watch criminals run from people, I'd watch an episode of cops, that only wastes 1/2 of my life. I certainly don't want to watch a bunch of whiny, entitled, overpaid dumb asses that think they have a clue, preach about how rough they have it. If they don't like the country, they make enough money to get out so go and don't come back.

 

[live4theking]

Cantflip, I'm with you on this whole topic of disrespect. Oh, how it drives me nuts. I don't have much time for those that disrespect the flag that I and many of my family members served under for the past several generations.

As an outsider looking in, while it is a complex issue, it doesn't seem complicated to establish what's what.
Here's my take; this is a race problem, pure and simple, White Americans refer to themselves as simply Americans, but then there are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Native Americans, Asian Americans, etc., and all those people seem to reject everything that is associated with America and Americans, (that is, they dislike the fact that the nation was founded by and for White people) except of course, all the benefits that come with living there, especially benefits obtained for free.

The main question is; if all these people who say they are victims, who make it clear that they hate America, if they really believe what they are saying, why don't they just leave?

CRV, thank you for saying it so plainly. Most of the individuals that put a country name in front of American have never set foot in that country let alone lived there. Please tell me what I am because my father has Irish, English, German, Dutch and who knows what else in his blood - my mothers grandparents both immigrated from Croatia. I am a true mutt; blended in the melding pot of America. My wife shakes her head at me when I have to fill out a form that askes what nationality I am, a number of years ago I started to mark other.

I'm so sick and tired of the politically inflated race wars. The worst people for stirring up hate among Americans in the last decade are the ones that complain the most about it.

I work with a fellow that grew up in El Paso, TX. When his grandmother died he had to go to MX for the funeral. A great guy that is hard working. Never in the last 7 years have I heard him put Mexican before American. As a matter of fact he served in the Navy.

 

[Carmine]

So about a year ago some guy, most of us never heard of, got his 15 minutes of fame. By not participating in the traditional pregame National Anthem Salute to the Flag.

To be honest, I thought him an *******, and moved on. As the media attention and the "what about me" crowd started making this more prevalent. I found it difficult to ignore.

I will admit to not being a diehard football fan, but usually follow my hometown team and have been a loyal fan. I am unimpressed by hiding in the locker room as much as I am unimpressed by teams locking arms. Those who feel they want to take a knee or sit this one out, welcome to America... you do have that freedom. The National Football League also has the right to pass rules and punishments for your lack of participation.

Kudos to Donald Trump for addressing this, but I am having a very hard time trying to figure out why he should have had to. I don't think it is very dignified that our POTUS has to address this sort of thing. The NFL is now high ranking on my personal shitlist.

I will agree wholeheartedly that this is a disrespectful act when done in the presence of any military personal... But, I never served, and I find it to be a disrespectful act too. Let's take the military argument out of this for a moment.

I am a traditional Heinz 57 heritage American citizen. I had a grandfather who was first generation from Germany, and a great grandfather who was an Irish immigrant. I know that there is also some English and Scottish in there... but am far from sure about the entire bloodline.

I do have heritage dating back to revolutionary war and my most famous family tree member is Betsy Ross. I am not a direct descendant.

My significant other is a naturalized citizen who escaped a communist country when she was two years old. Not only is she American, But she was raised to be an American by hardworking Cuban parents who wanted her to love this country and its customs. I was very touched when Thanksgiving diner at the in-laws became traditional turkey in my honor. Vivian and her siblings were encouraged to speak the language growing up, and while bilingual, English is their first language.

As a loyal citizen and proud tax paying member of our society, I find this display to be a direct insult. While I am sure there must be an appeal to those who's idea of "The American Way" is to live on public assistance and search the system for loopholes that bring more free money... I find it all disgusting. I don't want to pay more taxes, but I don't want to work at not paying them either. I don't mean that all folks on public assistance are bad, but I have seen how it caters to the scumbag element. Sorry, I'm drifting...

I'm an American, this is disrespectful to me. To those who are disrespecting their own flag... What do you respect? What do you stand for? While not perfect, this is our country... Dividing it won't make it better. I'm not calling for any counter protest, but IDK when I'll be watching my next NFL game. I am tired of being disrespected in my own country for my patriotism, and I sympathize with with all of you who feel the same.

(I'm quoting you because in your absence, some people said I was taking over for you? At least I think it was you they were talking about?) At any rate I suppose I'll take it as a compliment since your viewpoint more/less aligns with mine.

I'm going to take a really big picture view on the national anthem protests and I'll throw in the people fighting statues, street names, etc. Ever heard of the term "useful idiots"? If not, I'll use the definition given by Wikipedia, my emphasis added...

In political jargon, a useful idiot (also useful fool[1]) is a person perceived as a propagandist for a cause the goals of which they are not fully aware, and who is used cynically by the leaders of the cause.[1] According to the Oxford Dictionary of Euphemisms, the phrase stems from useful fool to refer to "a dupe of the Communists" and was used by Vladimir Lenin to refer to those his country had successfully manipulated.[1]

That's what most of these NFL players (and most of popular culture) have been for years now. They act out of emotion, not fact. What is especially pathetic is that no one can act from fact, because the numbers aren't reliably tracked:

"We can't have an informed discussion, because we don't have data," FBI Director James Comey said in the House of Representatives in October...."People have data about who went to a movie last weekend, or how many books were sold, or how many cases of the flu walked into an emergency room. And I cannot tell you how many people were shot by police in the United States last month, last year, or anything about the demographics. And that's a very bad place to be."

But again, I suggest to you this isn't a protest motivated by rational statistics (since few are) but rather that these people are puppets with their strings pulled by those with an interest in splintering the nation, along with the ideals of freedom,the 1st amendment, private property rights, etc. I'd write more, but I need to get out of the house this morning to exercise my own 1st amendment rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot#cite_note-rwholder-1

 

[65fury1]

I would rather work on and dump money into my cars, then watch or pay actual money on gear or to go to actual games to see these overpaid snowflake players whine about and protest the anthem.

 

[detmatt]

My views on this are supported in this thread quite well. On another note and since baseball continues to be a good and wholesome organization, did Anybody watch Andrew Romine play all nine offensive positions in the game against the Twins last night? Only the 5th player in MLB history to do so.

 

[67Monaco]

Honestly I don't see the point of playing the national anthem at a football game anyway. Though I do dislike the protests as well.

For me it's less the flag but more of disrespecting the tax payers that make it possible for them to play. Take away the tax breaks, and stop tax payer funded stadiums. I'm not sure if they still are or not but at one time in recent history the NFL was tax exempt. take away all the public funding of the NFL and they can do whatever the hell they want to do to whatever song they wish and to whichever sky cloth is flying at the time.

 

[Big_John]

This has become just another issue that is tearing the country apart. Sports has helped bring people together like no other thing, except maybe music. We can't have that... It wouldn't make for a good news story, so here ya go... Let's get everyone pissed off.

 

[mopar1934]

AS A VETERAN OF THE KOREAN WAR AND GROWING UP DURING WWII I WILL NOT BE WATCHING THE NFL ANYMORE.

 

[hanks71440]

My views on this are supported in this thread quite well. On another note and since baseball continues to be a good and wholesome organization, did Anybody watch Andrew Romine play all nine offensive positions in the game against the Twins last night? Only the 5th player in MLB history to do so.

Yes...I did watch the game and it was very cool to see him do that.

I also agree with all of the above threads....

 

[traintech55]

90 % of us Veterans are proud of the fact that we served to protect the right to protest and demonstrate for or against the subjects of the day. THAT is what makes us Americans special, and what makes people from so many other countries want to live and raise their families here. Our system Is the best in the world, we just have to take the time to understand and find the truth, not just say something is right because everyone else does.

 

[hanks71440]

Honestly I don't see the point of playing the national anthem at a football game anyway. Though I do dislike the protests as well.

For me it's less the flag but more of disrespecting the tax payers that make it possible for them to play. Take away the tax breaks, and stop tax payer funded stadiums. I'm not sure if they still are or not but at one time in recent history the NFL was tax exempt. take away all the public funding of the NFL and they can do whatever the hell they want to do to whatever song they wish and to whichever sky cloth is flying at the time.

You are correct.....the NFL is still TAX EXEMPT!!!! which boggles my mind. This should be stopped immediately. Everyone else has to pay taxes so why not them...... I will stop now.

 

[Pete Kaczmarski]

None of us have a job where you can protest while "on the clock". If they want to do this then do it before the game outside of the stadium (with the permission of the property owner). It will still be attended and covered by the press. They will still get their point across.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

This has grow into a entirely different thing. I personally turn look at the flag when the anthem plays, but I do not get upset when others do not, they may be from another country.
I have never been beaten by a cop, so I do not have a horse in that race. I am not a fan of cops, mostly from being a truck driver ( yes you give up some constitutional rights with a CDL), but that is my choice. I get tired of hearing I'm just doing my job out of them, who cares! I'm just doing my job when all the **** you want to buy shows up at stores etc. and not strewn all over the highway, quit patting yourself on the back you'll hurt your arm.
Back to topic. The NFL played this all wrong trying to be everyone's friend. You or in this case the NFL leadership needed to pick a side once the topic gained traction, and since their pockets are lined with fans money that would be the understandable choice. They chose wrong trying to be everyone's friend.
Same as when the manager at the super market tells the check out girl to honor the expired coupon for a customer that he has seen more than once in the store. Sure the check out girl is right but why piss off a customer over 50¢.
The NFL has no choice but to change/backpedal on this so it will be fun to watch them.

 

[rapidtrans]

I still can't figure out what they really want, other than the spotlight on them.
The national anthem has been played before sporting events since the 1860s. They say they're not protesting the flag or anthem but that's when they choose to protest. WTF?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I still can't figure out what they really want, other than the spotlight on them.
The national anthem has been played before sporting events since the 1860s. They say they're not protesting the flag or anthem but that's when they choose to protest. WTF?

The get their heads bashed in for a living and a lot of years leading to the pros for free. If you want logic from a NFL player I think you will be on a heck of a search, good luck.

 

[Rwc]

It seems that if they are supporting a cause, or bringing attention to a serous issue to them that they would be lending more personal time and their own money to bear. Taking a knee while on the payroll in front of TV cameras is just begging for attention from a captive audience.