simple electric fuel pump wiring

eyemon

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My research has uncovered numerous workable ways of wiring an aftermarket electric fuel pump with some being pretty simple and others not so much. My post isn't intended to disparage other's wiring designs but I didn't find any that fit well with what I wanted to accomplish. I wanted to be able to do a number of things all with a simple operation of the ignition switch and without adding an extra manual on/off nor instantaneous switch. I don't pretend to be any kind of wizard, but what I've come up with
lets me prime the carburator and fuel system for as long as may be needed, temporarily bypass the oil pressure safety switch for a pre-determined length of time, start the engine, and then have the electrical power to the fuel pump automatically change its route from through the temporary bypass to
only through the oil pressure safety shut down switch.
Everything mentioned above happens with a turn of the ignition switch. It is a simple and trouble free
answer to an aggravating problem that we experience with our classics that may sit for days or even months unstarted, during which time the fuel in the carburator float bowls can mostly evaporate. In fact, fuel evaporates rapidly also after shutdown of a hot engine as is evidenced by the need to engage the starter longer that normal after only a few hours of hot engine shutdown. I want my engines to always start on the first or second revolution but suffered along for "many moons" before coming up with the kind of fix that was what I wanted. I'm happy to pass my design along to all who may benefit from it. A shortened explanation is that the electric pump powers up instantly with the ignition switch being placed in the "run" position and is left in that position long enough to let the pump replace what gas has evaporated, before then engaging the starter. I've added an adjustable (on or off) delay relay
(also powered up when the ignition switch is placed in "run") into the electrical supply to the fuel pump. I've set that relay to 45 seconds which is the length if time that relay pin #87 powers up, sending 12 volts directly to the pump before #87 de-energizes. That 45 seconds (can be set longer or shorter) gives plenty of time, in my case, for the pump to refill the float bowls and for me to turn the ignition key to "start" which in turn fires up the engine, closing the oil pressure safety switch, thereby "taking over" all power supply to the fuel pump after the time delay relay pin #87 de-energizes. The wiring is such that the adjustable relay be set so that there is some number of seconds of "overlap" after the engine actually starts and before the #87 pin shuts off.
As in earlier posts I haven't learned yet how to get my messages over in fewer words, but I'm working on it. I have detailed additional information, including particulars about the adjustable timer delay relay, as well an easy to understand wiring diagram that I would forward by USPS to anyone who might want that information. (the referenced info is on hand written sheets and I have no idea of how to do that kind of thing electronically and no one to show me)

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I'd like to know what you used for a relay.

If you want, mail the stuff to me and I'll scan and post it. I'll send you a PM with my address.
 
any problems with it over priming once the car is restarted warm? when the oil light goes out almost instantly?
 
1970cat, No problems at all. You always start the engine exactly as you normally do. The only need to pause before turning the ignition switch from "run" to "start" is to give the pump time to replace any fuel that has evaporated from the carb's float bowl(s) which happens if the engine hasn't been run for a time (day's or weeks) but can also take place in a shorter time after hot engine shut down. In any case the delay timer does it's thing at EVERY start. You won't even be aware of anything other that the fact that no more extended cranking by the starter will be required because the pump sends fuel to the carb as soon as you turn the key rather that the delay as oil pressure builds enough to the close the safety switch which allows current to the pump. Also the oil pressure safety switch is back on line as soon as the timed delay finishes it's cycle which you will likely set at less than one minute. No carb flooding will happen because of this mod. Fuel flow into the carb is still controlled by the opening or closing of the float bowl needle valves as is the case no matter what the pump puts out. Electric or manual. Hope this answers your question. eyemon
 
Big_ John, I sent a private message a little bit ago but want to add this to it. I'm not sure if the policy on this site is (or isn't) to allow information as to where to find or purchase products so I'll play safe until someone clues me in on that matter. However I will include all of that info in what I will send your way this coming Monday. I recall reading somewhere on some similiar site that one individual got reemed pretty good for violating rules about naming supply scources. eyemon
 
I don't believe there would be any issue with giving a source for parts. This forum is pretty good with everybody posting links to craigslist and ebay for cars and parts, so I don't see any reason that it would be an issue.
 
OK Big_ John, I'll still include the info in my mail but here is how I found that adjustable relay: I plugged in "12 volt adjustable
delay timer" on the computer and was directed to 12voltplanet.co.uk which is the one I'm using. I think I found one or two others but their model has adjusting features that beat the others by far. I don't recall the other scources. I got my order in just a matter of about a week as I recall. Their relay is very simple to set as opposed to at least one of the others that I recall. Hope this helps. eyemon
 
I'm not too sure exactly what you are trying to accomplish with this system, but the most important issue with electric pumps is to have them shut off in the event of an accident or when the engine stops because of one. De energizing a fuel pump is usually done via the ground circuit or through the oil pressure switch. You can also use a relay that uses an auxiliary oil pressure switch to break the ground circuit as wood be required with a "needle gauge" sender as opposed to the "light" type sender. On the other hand if it's the power to the pump you wish to terminate then the relay wired into the power circuit to the pump would achieve the same thing. I personally prefer this system but then I have both a "feed" and "return" line from and to the fuel tank with a regulator just before the carb. In any event, the carb is primed promptly and does not flood and the pump de energizes when the engine stops. My dry bowl prime time is about 10 seconds.
 
What is being accomplished is to only run the fuel pump on start up. The relay times out and the pump turns off.

All other times the mechanical pump does the job.

So... you have the advantage of filling the empty carb on start up and not having the electric pump run the rest of the time.
 
mmmm I thought eyemon only has an electric pump that is switched on the oil pressure sensor, he added the timer relay to get the pump running as soon as the ignition contact goes to run so the bowls will be filled before you start cranking and thus giving an easy start of the engine.

I think it nicely thought out, you have the safety of the pump switching of when oil pressure is low (engine stop) and with the timer relay you get the carb filled before cranking and it is still safe because the pump will stop after 45s if there is no oil pressure. A small investment and a little work that will prevent a lot of cranking the engine before it starts. A+ sollution
 
Yatzee, My pump runs as soon as the ignition switch is turned on. If the carb needs filling I give it time to do that before turning the switch to "start". The engine will start within one or two revolutions. The time delay relay is also triggered when the ignition switch and is turned to "on", routing power directly to the pump, bypassing the (open) oil pressure safety switch.
The pump's power route through the delay relay opens at (my setting) of 45 seconds during which time the engine has started, closing the oil pressure safety switch and joining in the power circuit to the pump. The new power route through the oil pressure switch becomes the sole power supply after the temporary circuit through the delay automatically shuts down.
My system is only one of many, but it is simple, easy to install, problem free, all automatic, requires no special driver's input, and gives the driver a choice whether to prime the fuel system by cranking the engine or to do it by just turning the ignition key to the "run" position for a few seconds. It works well for me and does exactly what I wanted it to do. My installation wiring diagram would show how it works a lot better that my long post, but I'm not capable of attaching one here. However, anyone interested can let me know in the private message section of the forum and I'll send one.
 
I was not aware that you were running a mechanical pump with an electric pump. I guess I got a bit confused because I run an "in tank" electrical only with return line and regulator. This would be a great setup ( albeit somewhat pricey) for those with straight mechanically operated pumps but not uncommon to have a priming pump inline prior to the mechanical pump. I wonder though if an inline pump would create a bit of a restriction when not in operation. It takes a bit of extra suction to pull fuel past the internal veins, which by design, offer little clearance which enables them to pump in the first place. It's not like they are a "positive" pump, but their pretty close. They have to be this way in order to suck fuel on the inlet side and push the fuel at 10 p.s.i. on the discharge side. It would be interesting to see if a restriction exists on this setup, and to what r.p.m. it actually becomes a problem on fuel delivery. My Aeromotive pump puts out 25 p.s.i. at the tank but 12 feet of 3/8 line later the presure is only 18 p.s.i. and it's sitting right in the fuel.
 
Yatzee, Ha ha, I think I'll stick to trying to describe the taste of salt rather than how my pump installation works. There is no mechanical fuel pump, All electric. Basically, the delay relay just provides an immediate (temporary) circuit to run the pump.
The temporary circuit bypasses the oil pressure safety shut off switch for whatever length of time has been set, which in my case is 45 seconds. The circuit through the delay relay doesn't exist after the "relay times out" and never returns until the next time the engine is started. Oil pressure safety switches used in electric fuelpump installations have three pins, one of which is used to power the pump while cranking the engine. In my installation that switch is only used to shut down the pump if there is no oil pressure as in if the engine stalls out from the vehicle being involved in an accident. (or if the engine runs out of oil) My installation lets me prime the carb (if needed) without adding a manual switch, or ever having to engage the starter for that purpose. That was always my goal and this simple system does exactly that. I hope this clarifies things better than in my earlier posts.
 
My mistake "eyemon" - I read Big John's post regarding a mechanical pump and another stating that you had strictly electric. Salt causes high blood pressure, I know, I got it. Sarcasm is not necessary.
 
Yea, I misunderstood part of the post. Sorry.

I'd like to use an electric pump only as a carb bowl primer and a mechanical pump for driving. I've had bad luck with electric pumps and been stranded a couple times because of them quitting without warning.
 
Yatzee. Sarcasm not directed at you. I was taking a shot at my own inability to explain things in a manner that readers can grasp. I have always had trouble making short, clear, and to the point explanations. I think it's one of my defective genes that make me use three full pages to explain a most simple thing. I try not to, but sometimes I regress back to my old ways and as a result, readers' eyes glaze over long before they can ever get to what my point is. Anyway, thanks for your interest regarding my way of wiring an electric fuel pump.
 
Big_ John, Today (Feb 3rd) I sent information to you regarding the electric fuel pump wiring circuitry. USPS priority.
The information and wiring detail will clear up the misconceptions caused by my own shortcomings of not being able to explain
things very well in my blogs
 
Big_John, I wasnt doing much today so went out to my Monaco to verify that my wiring diagram was accurate. I pulled the delay relay and ouch! my drawing should show the temporary pump feed connecting to pin # 87a (NOT pin #87). I'm sending a corrected wiring diagram tomorrow (if I have your address) otherwise you can easily make the correction on your copy. Pin #87 is not connected to anything. Also, all references to pin #87 on the printed pages which I had included, should be changed to pin #87a. I was so sure that I remembered connecting the timed wire to pin #87 but obviously my memory didn't work so swell in this case and I apologize for not double checking that. I am glad though that I found my error before it causes trouble for anyone trying to use my original diagram. UPDATE: I can't find the paper that had your address on it but if you could send it again then I'll get the correct info on it's way to you. Thanks.
 
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