So I want to have a 440 built....

[carrman]

I've decided I'd like to have a 440 for the Newport. Local machine shop has a motorhome 440 that they will part with cheap. I was thinking about buying one of the 500 cid stroker kits from 440source since they include a new cranks, rods, pistons, etc. I also want to use all the goodies I can from the 383 since so much work has been done to the heads:

"It has a set of "346" heads from 1971. These heads were given to me by Lee Petty (Richard Petty's cousin and sometimes engine builder). They have huge stainless steel swirl polished intake and exhaust valves (2.14" / 1.88"), silicone bronze guides which have been machined to accept .550" lift cams and perfect circle valve seals. They have induction hardened seats with a three angle valve job. The valve springs are Erson/PBM single coil with dampner that are good for .550" lift, chrome-moly retainers and titanium locks (single groove).

The heads were milled .020" to make up for the .020" thick Felpro "Blue" head gaskets and were measured at 83 cc, which brings the compression ration to 9.8:1. Lee Petty blended the bowls (an excellent job--see pics) and matched the port openings to the gaskets. The intakes flowed about 260 cfm (a big increase over the stock 220 cfm).

Best part is they only have about 3,000 miles on them (after your trip home). The Camshaft is a Comp 268XE (Extreme Energy fast opening/closing grind) measured at 268/280 with .460" lift. The timing set is a single bolt Cloyes Double Roller and it has Mopar Performance "6-pack" heavy duty rocker arms.

As you can attest, everything works well together! You could buy a set of pricey aluminum heads, but they wouldn't make much difference in performance on that little 383."

I currently have the HP manifolds, TTI 2.5" dual exhaust, and an Eddy 750 carb. I don't want to go bracket race or anything, but when I accelerate for the freeway, or pass someone on a mountain pass, I want her to pin my ears back. Opinions anyone?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Too much spring for relatively small cam. I think you have locks and retainer material flip flopped. If you make a 500" you will need a bigger cam, more volume to fill just to stay same level. Bigger cubic inches will accept more duration. The flow numbers are decent but if you are only opening valve to .460 you are not seeing that number but I'm sure it is better at .460 also, but it sounds like heads are geared toward .550 and your only opening .460 if you build a new engine I would keep that in mind and not go overboard and lose driveability, maybe make a change to hydraulic roller.

 

[carrman]

What duration is recommended? What kind of gains will I see with a 500 as opposed to a 440 of stock displacement?

 

[Turboomni]

If my 440 ever goes belly up I too would seriously consider the 440source stroker kit. I assume your heads [sorry kinda new to the old V8 thing] are iron heads. Will 9.8 compression be a problem with todays pump fuel or if quality gets worse? I was thinking for my engine to keep it low compression ,stroke it ,iron heads with better valves and appropriate cam. I would want it to run like stock but with more available torque. No recommendations here ,I just want to learn .
Looking forward to hearing more about your project.

 

[max1196]

Cam shaft is not enough for a 500, Compression is wrong for using an iron "open chamber" style head with todays fuels. The quench issue (or more so lack of quench) comes into play as being a factor that must be addressed with stock choice heads. Pick a piston that will help aid in this.

 

[carrman]

How do I know what to pick? How much cam should I run?

 

[70bigblockdodge]

What duration is recommended? What kind of gains will I see with a 500 as opposed to a 440 of stock displacement?

As small as possible for lift that will work the heads.
Lift will have no affect on drivability, duration is the what makes it unruly
Small duration gives good vacuum, high cylinder pressure at lower rpm

 

[70bigblockdodge]

Cam shaft is not enough for a 500, Compression is wrong for using an iron "open chamber" style head with todays fuels. The quench issue (or more so lack of quench) comes into play as being a factor that must be addressed with stock choice heads. Pick a piston that will help aid in this.

This is correct. I have a set of 906 castings that are milled extensively and they are barely under 81 cc , the dead quench (lack there of) is still there but not much. My pistons 2266F TRWs (very old build) are ..090 in the hole and I am barely at 9.5 : 1. A 346 casting is deeper than a 906 as cast so .020 off the surface probably has you closer to 88cc's. I would just build a 440 and use the heads you have as stated above pick a piston to bring you in around 9 : 1 max with open chamber heads pick a cam with .475-.500 lift and as small of duration @ .050 as you can anything more will be wasted with those exhaust manifolds.

 

[carrman]

My current cam too small for even a 440?

 

[Johnny Mac]

If I may ask, what do you think your total bill is going to be from this project? And what are your projected numbers for hp/torque. This sounds to me like a case of "having to reuse some old parts at any cost" ...just to use them....being very detrimental to your overall goals. Whats the machine shop have to say about this? Or are they not putting it together? As noted above, stroked engines need to breathe, and thats a factor of heads, cam, and cid all being matched.

Again idk what u plan on your total cost being...but if its anywhere near 7k...I sell 525hp long blocks with aluminum heads for that...with a 30 month warranty...

If you think you can put it together for less...you then have to decide if the labor, no warranty, and power outputs are worth the saved $.

You arent right or wrong either way, just want you to have a good comparison point.

 

[carrman]

Trying to keep costs 4 grand or less.

 

[Johnny Mac]

Trying to keep costs 4 grand or less.

So those stroker kits are 2250 balanced. So you are thinking the block prep, and mising items, and assembly is going to run around 1750? Seems a bit ambitious but good luck! Hopefully this works out. Hp expectations?

 

[carrman]

So those stroker kits are 2250 balanced. So you are thinking the block prep, and mising items, and assembly is going to run around 1750? Seems a bit ambitious but good luck! Hopefully this works out. Hp expectations?

Honestly don't know what to expect for power. I might be just fine with a stock displacement 440 for what I want to do. Maybe I should just rebuild the 383 and call it a day.

 

[carrman]

Seriously though Johnny, I'm open for your suggestions that will allow me to use the heads I've got. I've got zero experience building a Mopar, so I'm here for guidance and wisdom. I've got money to spend, but I want to do it wisely.

 

[max1196]

Some of the key items that are to be used in this prospective build are the cylinder heads and the exhaust manifolds? And maybe that cam?

 

[carrman]

Willing to replace the cam if need be. The heads represent serious cost to replace, trying not to go there.

 

[max1196]

The 440 how much can it be had for? This is what I'm going to recommend with your budget. You have a running 383 in the car now? Stuff from the 383 that will not fit are; the distributor the pushrods and the intake, not to mention the rods or crank.

 

[carrman]

$250 for a rebuildable core from a motorhome.

 

[max1196]

Does it come with a crank and rods?

 

[carrman]

Cast crank engine but it is complete.