Starter cranks in Run position.

DC118us

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Hi all, I've been lurking around this site for years, but don't post often.

I have a 75 T&C, 440/727, etc. Bone stock except the carburetor.

After the long cold winter, I've developed an issue I'm hoping you guys can help me with...

I got in her and turned the key to the run position and the starter began cranking. Turned it off then back on and it only cranked in the start position. Shut her down and went to start it again, same thing, starter cranks in run position. I rapped the steering column and it quit. Started right up and ran good, but while running, the starter engaged again.

I think it's my ignition switch in the column, but I'm looking for some expert advise, rather than guessing. Quick search for a replacement ignition switch doesn't show much, due to it being the tilt/tele setup.

Anyone run into an issue like this before and what fix is there?

Dino
 

thethee

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Does sound like the ignition switch, but I'm no expert so I'm just guessing :lol:

If I remember correctly, @1970FuryConv might have a spare ignition switch
 

Sixpactogo

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I'm guessing the bendix in the starter is hanging up. A failed ignition switch is possibly the cause though.
 

DC118us

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I'm guessing the bendix in the starter is hanging up. A failed ignition switch is possibly the cause though.
I hadn't thought of that, but bumping my hand on the steering column wouldn't have any effect on that. The starter is engaging on start up, then after the car has run a minute or two, it's re-engaging. To me that doesn't sound like a bendix issue (but I could be wrong).
 

Big_John

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It's not the starter. The starter has power all the time and if it was hanging up, the starter would run without any input from the ignition switch. In other words, you'd turn the key, the starter would engage/turn and stay doing that until you disconnected the battery connection.

Since someone is going to say it, same for the starter relay. It has power all the time and depends on the ignition switch to energize the relay. If it was "hung up" the starter wouldn't disengage/stop until the battery was disconnected, just like the starter.

So, that leaves the ignition switch and associated wiring being the suspect.
 

57fury440

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Like said above. If you change the ignition switch, make sure you do a good inspection of the harness in the column. A wire connected to the switch may be broken and loose causing the erratic operation of the starter.
 

DC118us

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Like said above. If you change the ignition switch, make sure you do a good inspection of the harness in the column. A wire connected to the switch may be broken and loose causing the erratic operation of the starter.
Great idea, it's only a 47 year old car. Anyone know a good source for a reliable replacement and I'm assuming the tilt/tele ignition switch is in the same location as a non-tilt switch? Attached to the key tumbler? I've got a manual I can refer to (which will come in handy I'm sure).
 

thethee

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Locations are not the same, tilt/tele ignition switch is at the base of the colum under the dash
 

DC118us

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Locations are not the same, tilt/tele ignition switch is at the base of the colum under the dash
Thanks! Any suggestions on how to check the wiring in the column without disassembling the column top half? Just simple ohm tests, continuity or is there some other checks I could do?
 

thethee

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Hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure only the key in buzzer wiring is inside the colum with tilt/tele and the rest is on the outside under the dash so you shouldn't have to disassemble the column top half
 

1970FuryConv

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Does sound like the ignition switch, but I'm no expert so I'm just guessing :lol:

If I remember correctly, @1970FuryConv might have a spare ignition switch
I do have a spare ignition switch, but suspect it needs rebuild. OP might as well have his switch rebuilt. Or buy new.
Once you remove under steering column panel.

First: if your tilt column is like my 1973 tilt column, your tilt column is a Saginaw unit. It should have an adapter connector about 6" down from the ignition switch connector. That adapter connector heats up and it is easy to get electrical shorts between wires. I'd pull it apart and examine both sides of the connector carefully. Make necessary repairs and try start up.

Second: I'd suggest removing the switch from underneath the column. Then disconnect the Ignition switch connector. Column does not need to come apart. Ignition switch is activated by a rod that comes down from key tumbler.

Resistance: ignition start wire and ignition run wire, especially checking for cross continuity. IOW. If ignition run is shorted to ignition start, you've found your problem.
 

DC118us

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I do have a spare ignition switch, but suspect it needs rebuild. OP might as well have his switch rebuilt. Or buy new.
Once you remove under steering column panel.

First: if your tilt column is like my 1973 tilt column, your tilt column is a Saginaw unit. It should have an adapter connector about 6" down from the ignition switch connector. That adapter connector heats up and it is easy to get electrical shorts between wires. I'd pull it apart and examine both sides of the connector carefully. Make necessary repairs and try start up.

Second: I'd suggest removing the switch from underneath the column. Then disconnect the Ignition switch connector. Column does not need to come apart. Ignition switch is activated by a rod that comes down from key tumbler.

Resistance: ignition start wire and ignition run wire, especially checking for cross continuity. IOW. If ignition run is shorted to ignition start, you've found your problem.
Thank you for the information. I do suspect it's similar if not the same as your 73. I'll definitely check as you suggest. Is it possible to rebuild the switch myself or is it better left to a professional? Any suggestions on professionals for the job?

I really appreciate all the great info guys! I knew I came to the right place.
Thanks...
 

1970FuryConv

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Thank you for the information. I do suspect it's similar if not the same as your 73. I'll definitely check as you suggest. Is it possible to rebuild the switch myself or is it better left to a professional? Any suggestions on professionals for the job?

I really appreciate all the great info guys! I knew I came to the right place.
Thanks...
@DC118us Hi DC. I purchased Standard US-101 ignition switch NORS $27.14 ebay, includes tax and ship. Could not find original Mopar part # or Delco part # on ebay.
This is the one I purchased. Works excellent.
s-l1600.jpg

This switch is $23 on ebay now
Ignition Starter Switch-SWITCH and LOCK CYLINDER-IGNITION SWITCH Standard US-101 | eBay
Comparisons: Standard Green plastic to original, bare metal - wire connector burnt
PXL_20220124_214058007.jpg


PXL_20220124_214141457.jpg

PXL_20220124_214234769.jpg
 

Big_John

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@DC118us Hi DC. I purchased Standard US-101 ignition switch NORS $27.14 ebay, includes tax and ship. Could not find original Mopar part # or Delco part # on ebay.
This is the one I purchased. Works excellent.
View attachment 525785
This switch is $23 on ebay now
Ignition Starter Switch-SWITCH and LOCK CYLINDER-IGNITION SWITCH Standard US-101 | eBay
Comparisons: Standard Green plastic to original, bare metal - wire connector burnt
View attachment 525790

View attachment 525791
View attachment 525792
Is this like the later cars where there is a rod going from the key down to this switch?

If so, first thing I would check is the rod adjustment! I had an issue with a FWD Charger and an adjustment in the rod fixed it. Can't remember how it adjusts though...
 

1970FuryConv

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Is this like the later cars where there is a rod going from the key down to this switch?

If so, first thing I would check is the rod adjustment! I had an issue with a FWD Charger and an adjustment in the rod fixed it. Can't remember how it adjusts though...
Yes, it is rod actuated.

2022-01-26 Ignition switch, Standard US-101 install

I lay on the driver’s side floor and guided the rod from the ignition key assembly into the slot for the portion of the ignition switch that slides back-and-forth to different switch positions. To get the rod fully engaged, I pressed against the steering column with the switch until the rod fully popped into slot opening in the switch.

Ignition switch mounting bolts: forward, right hand finger tight. Rear, left and right hand, finger tight, then 5/16 short socket, 3 inch extension, 1/4 ratchet, but leave bolts slightly loose.

Adjustment: my wife held the ignition key all the way forward in the start position. I slid the ignition switch as far forward as I could (the rear end of the mounting slots) and then finished tightening the bolts with 5/16 inch short socket, 3 inch extension, ¼ inch ratchet. Start is the position farthest to the rear, or toward the rear of the car, in the slotted slide at the top of the switch that slides forward and backward depending upon key position.
 

Big_John

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Yes, it is rod actuated.

2022-01-26 Ignition switch, Standard US-101 install

I lay on the driver’s side floor and guided the rod from the ignition key assembly into the slot for the portion of the ignition switch that slides back-and-forth to different switch positions. To get the rod fully engaged, I pressed against the steering column with the switch until the rod fully popped into slot opening in the switch.

Ignition switch mounting bolts: forward, right hand finger tight. Rear, left and right hand, finger tight, then 5/16 short socket, 3 inch extension, 1/4 ratchet, but leave bolts slightly loose.

Adjustment: my wife held the ignition key all the way forward in the start position. I slid the ignition switch as far forward as I could (the rear end of the mounting slots) and then finished tightening the bolts with 5/16 inch short socket, 3 inch extension, ¼ inch ratchet. Start is the position farthest to the rear, or toward the rear of the car, in the slotted slide at the top of the switch that slides forward and backward depending upon key position.
It's coming back to me....

Late one night, I had to take a detour through Syracuse to get home. A puppy with about 5 or 6 kids chasing it ran out in front of me. I was willing to sacrifice the puppy, but I did some fancy driving to miss the kids and went off the road into a section that was torn up pretty bad. I missed everyone, including the pup but stalled the car. Tried to restart and it wasn't happening... By then the kid's Dad was there and he was thanking me all over the place for missing his kids... and the kids were loving that I missed the pup.... With the no start, the Dad said "Stick??? Can we push?" and next thing I know they were behind pushing. Got it started and headed home.

Next day, trying to figure out what was bad... Discovered the rod loose in the column... Turns out I had moved the rusty firewall forward when I hit the brakes... and pushed them even harder when I was off road, bouncing around trying to keep it all together, and stretched everything so the rod didn't touch the switch! IIRC, I had to adjust the switch and bend the rod a little.... and start looking for another car....
 

DC118us

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Wow, this is super information. Thanks for the US-101 part #, seemed everything I was finding was original NOS parts for about $200. I've ordered the ebay item already this morning! Thanks so much guys. Although the story sounds like a scary ride, I don't think an out of adjustment situation is what I have but will definitely check that first, since it is trying to start in the run position.

Thanks again! Love this forum....
 

1970FuryConv

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Wow, this is super information. Thanks for the US-101 part #, seemed everything I was finding was original NOS parts for about $200. I've ordered the ebay item already this morning! Thanks so much guys. Although the story sounds like a scary ride, I don't think an out of adjustment situation is what I have but will definitely check that first, since it is trying to start in the run position.

Thanks again! Love this forum....
Glad you got it before someone else did!
 

DC118us

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Update:
I had the afternoon off and decided to try and adjust the ignition switch as stated. That did the trick, thanks for all the info.

As I was laying on my back I noticed something. Is there a trim panel that is supposed to be over the passenger side mirror adjustment knob and light?
139021B3-32D7-4AC3-A96A-739004037CB4.jpeg
B9096ED5-BC6B-4478-A376-1AD1BE73944B.jpeg
 

57fury440

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It appears that there should be one but there doesn't look like there are any holes for the screws. Being that it is under where you can't see it maybe they felt it wasn't necessary.
 
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