Starting in 2nd gear?

Scoopy G

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Hello again gents,

Thanks for all the comments on my last post about the sluggish transmission. I thought the slow performance was due to the carburetor, so I had it rebuilt. The car starts and runs really well after a choke adjustment, so the re-build was a good idea. There were some issues with the carb, and it leaked.

But still the performance is anemic at low RPMs. AND, no matter where I adjust the kickdown linkage, the transmission will not kick down. I think I figured out today that the car is starting out in 2nd gear. I did a slow speed shift into first, and the car had a lot more punch. Then, at about 40mph, I did a manual shift into 2nd gear, and got the power I would expect.

SO, what's going on? Is it some internal adjustment in the transmission that needs tweaked? Maybe the shift linkage isn't right? (The shifter is quite tight and works well). And there doesn't seem to be any evidence of a loose transmission mount.

Any help will be greatly appreciated as always,

Rich in Tampa
 
If you have set the kick down to factory specs, note the following: The A727 can not readily start in second gear. Did you try starting the car to move in the 1 drive position? If low gear is not there for some reason, it just won't move. You should start by checking your band adjustments. A poorly adjusted band can result in no downshift. This can also be caused by low operating oil pressure, a defective governor or a bad valve body or valve body gasket. The most common cause of low operating pressure is a clogged transmission filter. Have your serviced the transmission and replaced the filter? In not, do that first along with the band adjustment and report back.

Dave
 
Thank you Dave. Considering the time the car sat idle, a transmission service seems to be in order. Now I have to find a shop that has any experience with a 727 from '67. Thanks again, and cheers from Tampa,

Rich
 
The TF727 has never been set up to start in 2nd gear, only in 1st gear. IF it's not downshifting into 1st gear by itself as the vehicle slows, then something in the valve body is sticking.

Starting in "D", from a stop, which is termed "Breakaway" in the service manual fluid schematic in the FSM, different portions of the trans geartrain are operational than if the trans is shifted into manual "1" (when the holding item is the Low/Reverse band).

Our '66 Newport with the 383 2bbl/2.76/8.55x14 tires, the automatic upshift (1-2) at WOT happened at 37mph, which is within the spec speed in the service manual. WOT at any speed just past that will result in the trans only doing down to 2nd gear.

IF you put the trans in "1" (manual Low), does the car accelerate better than if you start in "D"? IF you take off in "D", at what speed does the FIRST automatic upshift (which you can feel and hear the change in engine speed) happen?

Rather than worry too much about band adjustments, you might do a pressure check for the "Governor" pressure at various vehicle indicated speeds. Per FSM procedures, with the car on a lift where the rear wheels are off the ground (free to spin in air space).

The reason I mention to being specifically not very interested in the band adjustment is that the old-line Chrysler service manager at the local dealer, when I I asked him about band adjustments (back in the later '60s, as a necessity or whatever), his reply was that he'd tried running them "loose or tight", with no difference in operation of the trans. So, he'd come to the conclusion that although the base adjustment should be done when the trans was rebuilt (with the band(s) being replaced), BUT if the band was not slipping, it was fine. The other side of that deal is that if the band has been slipping too much, then the adjustment might be a diagnostic situation to see if it's too far gone to effective "grab" against what it was supposed to, there was nothing to be gained by that adjustment on a working-well transmission. I would suspect that ANY slipping friction item in the trans was slipping, the trans fluid should probably indicate such (with a "burnt" smell to the fluid and also a darkening of the fluid (from it's normal bright red/crimson color).

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
FYI...all 727 and 904 did not have part throttle kickdown until late 60's (slant six/318). Big block 727 did not get it till early 70's.
You can punch the gas pedal all you want and it will not drop to 2nd. It can and will drop to 1st quickly and upshift to 2nd then drive.
Been driving a 66 300 with 383 and 727....I always manually shift to second on a on ramp to get the power and speed up quickly.
My 68 Newport I installed the part throttle 3-2 kickdown to the valve body..I simply tromp on the go fast fun pedal and let the trans do the work.
The throttle linkage regulates line pressure. If not adjusted correctly it will feel sluggish "like being in 2nd." But actually it may not. Re adjust the linkage again before you burn up the trans.
Hope this helps
 
The TF727 has never been set up to start in 2nd gear, only in 1st gear. IF it's not downshifting into 1st gear by itself as the vehicle slows, then something in the valve body is sticking.

Starting in "D", from a stop, which is termed "Breakaway" in the service manual fluid schematic in the FSM, different portions of the trans geartrain are operational than if the trans is shifted into manual "1" (when the holding item is the Low/Reverse band).

Our '66 Newport with the 383 2bbl/2.76/8.55x14 tires, the automatic upshift (1-2) at WOT happened at 37mph, which is within the spec speed in the service manual. WOT at any speed just past that will result in the trans only doing down to 2nd gear.

IF you put the trans in "1" (manual Low), does the car accelerate better than if you start in "D"? IF you take off in "D", at what speed does the FIRST automatic upshift (which you can feel and hear the change in engine speed) happen?

Rather than worry too much about band adjustments, you might do a pressure check for the "Governor" pressure at various vehicle indicated speeds. Per FSM procedures, with the car on a lift where the rear wheels are off the ground (free to spin in air space).

The reason I mention to being specifically not very interested in the band adjustment is that the old-line Chrysler service manager at the local dealer, when I I asked him about band adjustments (back in the later '60s, as a necessity or whatever), his reply was that he'd tried running them "loose or tight", with no difference in operation of the trans. So, he'd come to the conclusion that although the base adjustment should be done when the trans was rebuilt (with the band(s) being replaced), BUT if the band was not slipping, it was fine. The other side of that deal is that if the band has been slipping too much, then the adjustment might be a diagnostic situation to see if it's too far gone to effective "grab" against what it was supposed to, there was nothing to be gained by that adjustment on a working-well transmission. I would suspect that ANY slipping friction item in the trans was slipping, the trans fluid should probably indicate such (with a "burnt" smell to the fluid and also a darkening of the fluid (from it's normal bright red/crimson color).

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

Adjusting the bands at a normal service interval was recommended. A properly adjusted band saves wear and tear on the servos by limiting their range of travel. It is true the bands will continue to function outside the ideal adjustment, but there is no good or advantageous reason to run them that way.

Dave
 
Adjusting the bands at a normal service interval was recommended. A properly adjusted band saves wear and tear on the servos by limiting their range of travel. It is true the bands will continue to function outside the ideal adjustment, but there is no good or advantageous reason to run them that way.

Dave
In D the low reverse band does nothing, 1st is reliant on the sprag (this allows quicker/cleaner/faster shift to second). He needs a service and yes a band adjustment is in order. The linkage is most likely not right( yes it matters) your trans is slipping it does not know what your gas pedal is doing and will be toast in short order.
 
Thanks Old Man, I appreciate your comment. I found a shop here in Tampa that looks promising, and I plan to call them tomorrow. Tonight I took the car out and manually shifted a few times...in 1 off the line, then up to 2, then into D. In doing this, the car accelerated as you would expect a 383 to do...power was available at the pedal, unlike when the car is simply driven in D. So, you are probably correct that service is needed, and I'll get on that this week! Cheers from Tampa and thanks again, Rich
 
Adjusting the bands at a normal service interval was recommended. A properly adjusted band saves wear and tear on the servos by limiting their range of travel. It is true the bands will continue to function outside the ideal adjustment, but there is no good or advantageous reason to run them that way.

Dave
 
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