Starting - Running Issue with New Electronic Ignition Kit 1978 440

[Sport Fury 67]

Has anyone had any experience installing a Electronic Ignition Kit from Mancini Racing to replace the Lean Burn on a 1978 NYer 440. I have installed it but she will not start/run. The starter will kick it over and the motor will spin up normally until the point where it should start. At that point, she bogs down and the motor practically stops. I acts like the advancement is too high.

I loosened the distributor hold down bracket and turned the distributor in to the far ends in both directions, it did not improve and it still bogged down.

My old distributor did not have a vacuum advance, but the new one does. Also, there is a capacitor wired to the Ignition coil, should this be removed?

I did not re-install any electrical connections to the Lean Burn and I left the old ballast resistor hook up as the instructions stated. I have double checked all the electrical connections, and we are good. Any constructive suggestions would be most appreciated.

 

[Davea Lux]

The first thing to check is if you have the distributor properly oriented, it is very easy on Mopars to install it 180 degrees off. Run a compression check on #1 cylinder, leave the key off and have a helper put a socket on the crank pulley and turn the engine until the compression starts to come up and line up the timing mark on TDC. Is the rotor pointing to the #1 plug wire on the cap? If so, the distributor is properly oriented. If not, remove the clamp and rotate the distributor rotor 180 degrees. If you were 180 out the car should now start.

If it still will not run, check the coil wire to see if you are getting spark. Remove the coil wire from the distributor cap and position it about 1/8" from a good ground. The wire should spark each time the pick up module is tripped as the engine is cranked. Electronic ignition is very sensitive to voltage issues so be sure you have a fully charged battery. Also check the ground to the ignition module as it will not fire the coil if it is not properly grounded.

The capacitor you mention is not that but a condenser that is supposed to pick up static from the coil so that it does not cause back ground noise on your radio. If it is shorted, it could be grounding out the coil and preventing it from firing. It will not hurt anything to unhook it to see if that is the cause of your no start issue.

Finally, did you have a no start with the lean burn? If so you may have an issue elsewhere such as a timing chain or large vacuum leak or fuel supply issue.

Dave

 

[73 T&C]

Do all the above (which Is very well stated and clearly written) and also....

check that you have gas in the carb.

Your initial post did not say.

Not trying to be a smart *** at all.... just covering all the bases.

Also, Dave may have missed telling you that you need to remove the hold down, lift the distributor enough to disengage it and then turn the rotor 180 degrees....

And if it makes you feel better... we’ve all been where you are right now.

 

[CBODY67]

I'm presuming you are talking about the Mopar Perf Elec Ign conversion kit? Just curious.

The neat thing about B/RB Chrysler engines is that they are either "in time" or 180 degrees out. No "one tooth off" when you puta the distributor back in, as with some other brands of popular motors.

Presuming, too, that this "no start" issue was not there before you did the ign swap? Why the desire to replace the LB system?

Be aware, too, that you might end up needing some richer metering rods/jets with the existing carb or a different non-LB oriented carb. On the LB engines, it was the carb and ignition that were the basis of the system. Getting a reman carb is not a good choice as you don't know what fuel calibration the carb ended up with. Which tends to make a new Edelbrock or similar carb a better choice.

Keep us posted on what you find,
CBODY67

 

[1978 NYB]

Which carb do you have on it?

 

[78Brougham]

Once you do get it running, I believe Lean burn runs on full manifold vacuum, so you can't use that same vacuum line to feed the vacuum advance on the distributor. You'll need to find ported vacuum from somewhere.

And if it makes you feel better... we’ve all been where you are right now.

Agreed!

 

[Deleted member 220]

Just did mine had the same problem but all is good now

 

[Sport Fury 67]

Thank you for all the comments. The car did run well, but in temps over 80 F, the Lean Burn would fail to re-start or just die. The last time was at the C-Body meet in Volo, IL - quite embarrassing. I ordered the upgrade to eliminate this issue. There is plenty of gas in the carb and the fuel system is working fine. The carb is the original one put on at the factory, only 17 K on it (will need to be re-built due to leakage).

There is a braded grounding strap screwed to the firewall about 4 inches away from orange box ECU, I will attach a separate ground to the unit itself.

 

[Sport Fury 67]

I think what may have occurred was the instructions stated to leave the Distributor and the Hold Down Bracket "loose". I may have had it too loose and it may have jump up enough to re-position the slot 180. Captain Newport's set up is just like mine (same color car - nice!) Somewhat tight quarters with the 100 amp alt, the RV2 and all the heater hose. Will give it another shot tonight.

 

[Sport Fury 67]

Success! I followed Dave's advice and determined the rotor was not pointing to the #1 plug wire on the cap, it was pointing to #8, one spot over. When I was installing distributor, I had to do quite a bit of maneuvering and must have messed it up. It starts really well; now I have to set the timing and find a ported vacuum line to connect the vacuum advance on the distributor. The original distributor did not have one.

I am finding more and more of after market parts and kits take a bit of adjusting to make them work compared to NOS factory parts. The wiring harness plug was not molded correctly and I had to cut out 1/8 inch of material all around the female end to get it to fully fit on male plug on the orange box. The inner lip of the distributor cap was not molded completely round so again, I had to remove material to have it sit straight and be properly be held with the clips.

Spending so much quality time next to the carb, I can see the corn-mix gas sold in IL is eating my seals and we are weeping gas. Time to read the past posts on having it re-build vs replacing it with a new one. You guys who provide answers and post comments to help out with our problems are like my uncles and family members that I would go to with these questions. Thanks for being out there.

 

[Davea Lux]

Success! I followed Dave's advice and determined the rotor was not pointing to the #1 plug wire on the cap, it was pointing to #8, one spot over. When I was installing distributor, I had to do quite a bit of maneuvering and must have messed it up. It starts really well; now I have to set the timing and find a ported vacuum line to connect the vacuum advance on the distributor. The original distributor did not have one.

I am finding more and more of after market parts and kits take a bit of adjusting to make them work compared to NOS factory parts. The wiring harness plug was not molded correctly and I had to cut out 1/8 inch of material all around the female end to get it to fully fit on male plug on the orange box. The inner lip of the distributor cap was not molded completely round so again, I had to remove material to have it sit straight and be properly be held with the clips.

Spending so much quality time next to the carb, I can see the corn-mix gas sold in IL is eating my seals and we are weeping gas. Time to read the past posts on having it re-build vs replacing it with a new one. You guys who provide answers and post comments to help out with our problems are like my uncles and family members that I would go to with these questions. Thanks for being out there.

If you have the carb that came with the lean burn still on the car, the simplest and best solution is to install either a '75 Thermo quad off of a donor car or one of the aftermarket replacements. Your old carb with a lot of work can be made to function without the electronics that were in the lean burn, but it is usually more trouble than it is worth. You will probably need to do some tweaking of the aftermarket carb to fatten up the mixture as the new ones tend to run a little on the lean side. Be sure to replace all of the old fuel hoses while you are at it as the moonshine blend will eat the hoses as well.

Dave

 

[1978 NYB]

A 1973-75 TQ will work. Easiest is probably an Eddie 1406. If you want to spend the Money a Holley 750 quick fuel is a real nice carb.

 

[CBODY67]

IF you want to maintain "the factory look", but with a new carb, then the Street Demon 650, with the optional phenolic float bowl will do it. Fits both spread bore (what you have with the TQuad) or "square bore" manifolds.

All of the new TQuads still around, or remans, now seem to be "will-fit" rather than "specific-spec" carbs. Might as well get a new-design carb and be done with it, I suspect.

As for fuel lines, follow the fuel supply/return lines ALL THE WAY TO THE BACK as there are rubber sections at the tank, too! They are all subject to the same ill effects of ethanol fuel blends.

Glad it was an easy fix to get it to start!
CBODY67