Voyager 1 and 2 still alive!!!! 38,000 mph!

The Signal NASA Didn't Want to Receive from the LUCY Probe​

The Signal NASA Didn't Want to Receive from the LUCY Probe

Neat vid.

I was struck by a few things.

1. Newtonian mechanics at its arithmetic finest. All that orbital math - the loops, flybys, etc., - to conduct the grand tour. fantastic.

2. 47,000 pieces of space junk, we put there, in earth orbit. seems like thats gotta get cleaned up one day?

3. 4,600 "fossil" asteroids IN Jupiter's orbit AT LaGrange points (didn't know that). stated another way, 4.5 billion year old "leftovers" from the original space dust cloud "disk" that became our solar system (Sun and all the planets). And Lucy has a spectrograph ... it can figure out what those rocks/ice balls are made out of.

4. Aside - the hypothesis of how Jupiter (and the other gas giant "outer" planets) came to be, and how that may have affected the rocky "inner" (terrestrial) planets is fascinating.

One way to consider one conclusion the could be drawn from this particular hypothesis (five minute video below explains it) is "No Jupiter, No Earth, No Us". Gives new meaning to the cliche "Who's Your Daddy?"



Not to scale .. Jupiter is 11 times wider (diameter) than Earth, Saturn 9 times, etc. But, the inner planets are about their real relative sizes to each other. Earth & Venus almost same size, Mars, then Mercury (not much wider than our Moon)


Last edited:
The oldest, BIGGEST galaxies yet, perhaps as far back as 500,000 years after the Big Bang.

Webb has found older galaxies, but it seems the new learning is galaxies nearly as old were BIG (in terms of number of stars).

source: Space telescope spots massive galaxies near cosmic dawn and blows astronomers' minds



"Astronomers have discovered what appear to be massive galaxies dating back to within 600 million years of the big bang, suggesting the early universe may have had a stellar fast-track that produced these “monsters.”

While the new James Webb Space Telescope has spotted even older galaxies, dating to within a mere 300 million years of the beginning of the universe, it’s the size and maturity of these six apparent mega-galaxies that stunned scientists.

They reported their findings Wednesday in the journal Nature."
Last edited:
Regarding #543, I saw De Grasse-Tyson on a morning show today talking about the photos. Actually, these are "old" pics (meaning some of the first Webb took) but the researchers are just now reporting some of their findings.

Part of their "delay" in reporting is they were kinda dumbfounded by what they saw. They were confused by the AGE and SIZE of a few of these galaxies. They expected JWST would find/see stuff they could/and could NOT explain. That's what the $10B was for in the first place.

But still.

By rough analogy for my pedestrian mind, when I next see my 3 year old grandson, I expect he will be about three feet tall, a foot taller than when I last saw him at two years old. I do not expect him to be six feet tall.

The space kids expected EARLY galaxies to be a certain size, brightness, etc. They fast-forward expected galaxy sizes, ages, etc. and compared to what they actually see compared to what they expect.

These early behemoths are the cosmic equivalent, to my crude analogy, of 3 year old kids that are 6 feet tall. We'd have to conclude something we may not understand is going on with such a child. Same logic with these giant "toddler" galaxies.

Back to cosmology, being "perplexed", or "confused", or "surprised", is what the space kids live for. Something new to be learned possibly if they encounter unknown things in their research.

De Grasse-Tyson was giddy as a teenager at a Taylor Swift concert. Probably like the folks who found these YOUNG, GIANT galaxies. For myself, I am looking forward to the next data reviews .. something needs explanation about galaxy development. Or not.

Either way, its gonna be pretty exciting going through JWST data for the next decade.

ASIDE .. De G-T gave a shout out to the brilliant and dedicated designers/engineers/builders of JWST. Without them, none of this fantastic new Webb data (in hand and surely to come) would even be possible.

The 'space kids", also brilliant and dedicated in their respective fields, get into the paper and on TV .. other important people rarely do. So we can't forget them was Tyson's point..
Latest from JWST.

Unless you are trained (I am NOT) in exactly what you are looking at, you may need to read the links.

This is Wolf-Landmark-Melotte (WLM) Irregular , "Dwarf" Galaxy, 3M light years from Earth, in the same Local Group of Galaxies with the Milky Way.

Discovered in 1909, studied extensively 15 years later, its named after its discoverer and main researchers.

sources: Wolf–Lundmark–Melotte - Wikipedia,

WLM is (the blob in the middle) from a ground telescope in Chile:

'WLM galaxy has many features - its composition is still relatively same as when it formed, its stars are really old, it doesn't seem to have the heavier elements (the stuff in us) in the same quantities as Milky Way (where did it all go?).

All that means is now that JWST is looking at it, humans can learn what we NEVER were able to before Webb parked out a L2 less than a year ago.

Below, side by side , Spritzer vs. Webb (both INFRARED space-based telescopes, & Spitzer is retired) looking at exact same area of the sky.

Again, clarity/sharpness of Webb pics stands out, plus what you don' see is Webb's spectrometry abilities to determine chemical composition of what its looking at. So many stars it looks like you are looking AT the Milky way, as opposed to WLM (a whole DIFFERENT Galaxy).

Pictures below are same area of WLM (subset). The pic above is ALL of WLM, so they are NOT the same patch of sky

Below we can clearly see individual stars and nebulae IN WLM, plus even OTHER galaxies/stars NOT in WLM.
The Local Group - All the galaxies (50 or so out of billions in the Universe) clustered within about 5 LY off Milly Way.

I am pretty sure I put this here. I think. sorry if here twice.

Most of stars we can see with naked eye ARE IN the Milky Way.

You can see Andromeda Galaxy, a Local Group member (will merge with Milky Way, in 4-5 BILLION years) on a clear nigh with binoculars OR if you have really good eyes. Most else in the local group you need a telescope and/or good binoculars.

WLM in Post #545, is bottom-middle of the diagram below.

sources: Imagine the Universe!, | EarthSky



What is the Local Group?

Our universe contains at least hundreds of billions of galaxies, maybe trillions, in all shapes and sizes. Most are very far away from our home galaxy, the Milky Way.

At billions of light-years away, most are too far to see without binoculars or a telescope. But our Local Group of galaxies is different. It consists of our neighboring galaxies within the vast universe.

The Local Group galaxies are all located within roughly 5 million light-years of space around us. The Local Group’s diameter as a whole is about 10 million light-years.

Our Milky Way is just one of three large galaxies in the Local Group. But it’s not the biggest of the Local Group galaxies. That would be the Andromeda galaxy. And the third galaxy, called the Triangulum galaxy, is the smallest of the three large ones.

There are also 50 or so dwarf galaxies in the Local Group. So is the Local Group considered a large structure in our universe? Yes and no. Keep reading to learn more.
From 2/28/23.

source: Seeing Triple (Annotated)


"This observation from the NASA/ESA/CSA James Webb Space Telescope contains three different images of the same supernova-hosting galaxy, all of which were created by a colossal gravitational lens.

Gravitational lensing occurs when a massive celestial body causes a sufficient curvature of spacetime to bend the path of light travelling past or through it, almost like a vast lens.

In this case, the lens is the galaxy cluster RX J2129, located around 3.2 billion light-years from Earth in the constellation Aquarius.

This annotated image of the cluster highlights the three images of the lensed galaxy, including the one where the supernova was detected."

We are gonna see a bunch of these galaxy clusters from Webb, lensed or otherwise.

The link above and excerpt explains the photo, as in my own case, I cannot tell exactly WHICH stellar features are duplicated (even tripled in this case) by gravitational lensing unless it was pointed out by the space kids.

In pedestrian terms, IF a massive (visible and dark matter) structure in in our line of sight but CLOSER than OTHER things in the same line of sight, objects BEHIND the massive object could appear TWICE or more to us.

In reality, they are only there once of course but the gravity OF the massive thing in our line of sight has bends the light rays from the things BEHIND it (further away from us) .. just like our eyeglasses work on visible light (to correctly focus (bend) light rays on our retinas

Anyway, the background galaxy (the one with the supernova in it) was in triplicate, but still appearing different HERE on Earth because of the date we took the pics. They are about 1,000 days apart, and many billions of years ago, cuz it took that long for light to get here.

TANGENT - reminds me of something I learned in grade school.

IF the Sun was to burn out in five seconds (it wont, its got another five BILLION years of fuel to burn) from right now, WHEN would we see that event on Earth?

About eight minutes and five seconds from now we'd learn we are all gonna die soon here on Earth. It takes light that long to travel the 93 million miles from Sun's position in space compared to the Earths.


I learned the three R's like every other kid did .. it took third grade science teacher (Miss Rogers had this book, or a recent edition .. I remember the cover, the author's name, and the lady on the front looked like Miss Rogers) to help me really understand BIG numbers .

The rest of the grade school lesson? Looking up at the stars, is the same thing a looking back in time.

Any one, or more, of those bright dots I looked at last night in the sky, could in reality be gone OR, for example, 1,000 times as bright cuz an eligible star went supernova (i.e., 400 years ago out where that star was) but only ten seconds ago here on Earth, after I looked at it

I wouldn't know that ever happened .. I'd be (my kids and maybe grandkids too) long turned to dust well before the light got here that revealed the event even occurred at all -- 400 years after it happened.
Last edited:
From earlier this week.

This photo was taken a year ago (among the first JWST ever took). The link goes into great detail on this image -- pretty nerdy stuff but one of the primary reasons JWST was conceived -- help understand HOW all we see (even us) got here?

The photo (the bright star right in the center) is of a "Wolf-Rayet" star (named for the two folks who discovered stars LIKE this 150 years ago, this one 15,000 LY from Earth). Not every star becomes a "supernova".

Recall it is in supernova explosions were "heavy elements" lead, iron, gold, zinc, silver, tin, uranium, etc) get created (IN the star's core, [and IN the dust throw OFF by the star OR already nearby] by shockwaves from the explosion).

The star blows all that stuff into interstellar space as "dust" that winds up in other nebulae, stars, or solar system "disks", etc.. and then wind up INSIDE humans. We each have atoms in us, right now, that are billions of years old (according to science) -- "created" by a supernova sometime in the distant past.

Wolf-Rayet stars, before they go supernova, start to cast off "dust" into space that glows in infrared (red/orange colorized in the photo). Questions about how much, what survives AFTER the star goes supernova, etc, tells the space kids volumes -- potentially -- about how things came to be/or will probably last in the Universe.

AGain .. the links have all the gory, nerdy, detail if one wants to dive in.

sources: NASA’s Webb Telescope Captures Rarely Seen Prelude to Supernova, Wolf–Rayet star - Wikipedia


"The rare sight of a Wolf-Rayet star – among the most luminous, most massive, and most briefly detectable stars known – was one of the first observations made by NASA’s James Webb Space Telescope in June 2022. Webb shows the star, WR 124, in unprecedented detail with its powerful infrared instruments. The star is 15,000 light-years away in the constellation Sagitta.

Massive stars race through their lifecycles, and only some of them go through a brief Wolf-Rayet phase before going supernova, making Webb’s detailed observations of this rare phase valuable to astronomers.

Wolf-Rayet stars are in the process of casting off their outer layers, resulting in their characteristic halos of gas and dust. The star WR 124 is 30 times the mass of the Sun and has shed 10 Suns’ worth of material – so far. As the ejected gas moves away from the star and cools, cosmic dust forms and glows in the infrared light detectable by Webb."
You've been busy here amazinblue82! That's great and lots of very interesting stuff.
You've been busy here amazinblue82! That's great and lots of very interesting stuff.
i'm a space nerd brother ... starting with these "shiney guys" (and my Dad's Nat Geo's) before I could even read :).


I knew all these cats' names when I started school in early '60's (for the whipper-snappers" among us, these are the original "Mercury Seven" astronauts, circa. 1960 photo. All these fellers have passed away).

Anyway, all the cool space stuff on FCBO seemed to wind up here and a couple other threads the Voyager's keep on truckin' after 45 years, there's a lotta neat things of potentially HISTORICAL signficance going on right now..


Decenber 2022 source: NASA’s Voyager: The next generation.
Last edited:
A lot going on here to read about at the link it interested. but in a nutshell you can take a couple minutes below pics to read:

source: NASA’s Webb Spots Swirling, Gritty Clouds on Remote Planet


Artists' conception (top) of actual Webb's sprectro-graphy (bottom) of an exoplanet (1256 b -- a planet around some star other than the Sun, 5,500 of them found so far [most found by Kepler Telescope - now retired]).

Webb found/studying this planet by direct observation (NOT indirectly by the "transit method" -- i.e., measuring a star's tiny light drop level WHEN a planet passes in front of it, and/or getting spectra from light shining THROUGH the planet's atmosphere from behind the planet from its sun).

1256 b's host "star" is a binary pair (two stars orbiting each other), 16 BILLION miles (4 times distance Pluto is from our Sun) from the planet, planet takes 10,000 earth years to orbit once, and it's a "baby" at only 150 million years old (Earth is estimated 4.5 BILLION years old).

Its 40 light years from Earth, has a "day" 22 hours long, and an atmosphere of roiling silicate cloud. Not even Webb has resolution to make out details .. the artist is "interpreting" Webb's ability to discern temperature/composition elements IN the planets atmosphere and what this MIGHT look like.

Big deal?

Webb's instruments did all this at ONE TIME .. we found same stuff on other exoplanets but .. in the past with multiple teams using multiple, different instruments, over time. Not Jimbo .. everything, all at once, one team using one kicka** telescope.

Remarkable device that Webb .. and its just getting started. not even at work a year yet ...

Last edited:
The "Ole Eye in the SKy", Hubble, aint done yet.

Here, just a few months old, Hubble's latest of Jupitel and Uranus .. at their surfaces have changed. Jupiter not much, but Uranus (one of its poles .. recall planet is kinda laying on its side as its axis is inexplicably "horizonal to its solar orbit -- is now all white..

source: What's That Big White Splotch on Uranus?

Hubble on Jupiter (and date)


Hubble on Uranus (and dates)
Last edited:
Couple days ago. Jimbo Webb doin' its thing.

sources: JWST gets best view yet of planet in hotly pursued star system,

Webb weighs in on the Trappist-1 (the name of the star) System (posts #75, #88, #188 above). Recall several years ago we found a dwarf star (39 LY away, or 240 TRILLION miles) with seven, rocky planets, all roughly EARTH sized, orbiting it.

Do any have atmospheres? Any thing else that might make is possible for the kinda "life" we have on this rock? etc., A lotta info at the previous posts/links above if ya wanna nerd out.

Artist conception (not to distance scale):

So, where does Webb come in. It CANNOT "see" the Trappist-1 system planets in a photo kinda way. They are just too small/dim.

But, it CAN measure the heat (in infrared of course, wiith its MIRI system) from the Trappist sun radiating OFF one of the planets. That is stunning but exactly what they hoped Webb would be able to do.

Again, that's where the $10B went-well spent IMHO.

So, focusing on the the Trappist-1b planet (one of the seven, goes around its sun in less than two Earth days so its pretty close in), they have now concluded it (still studying the others) has NO atmosphere. Therefore, nothing "alive" there as we know it.

There's some other science (has to do with heat flux with/without an atmosphere) going on in making that "no atmosphere" determination on 1b .. again you can nerd out at the links on all that technical stuff.

If it did have an atmosphere (or by now has one), 39 Earth years later it does NOT show one today when the light got to us. Even going around a red dwarf, 1/10 the size/thermal output as our Sun, 1b's position means its "day-side" is just too hot mainly cuz its too close to even a dim star like Trappist-1.

Second chart below shows Trappist-1b planet surface temp in context in its system vs. Earth/Sun temps.

Artist conception of Trappist-1b planet vs. its red dwarf sun. Then its dayside surface temperature vs. Earth and Mercury

We all have been saying it.

If we are gonna find "evidence" of other planets (we already have) with evidence of atmosphere's (we already have), rocky with Earth-strength gravity plus carbon-gased atmosphere (we have NOT yet), Webb prolly has a shot at it.

May be tomorrow, may not be in the lifetime of the machine (spec'd at 20 years), may be never.

But, we've only found 5,000 exo planets (out of LIKELY several billion planets in THIS galaxy alone, with several million of those planets LIKELY Earth types) so far.

Chances are high, we are gonna find some more cool stuff with Webb.
Last edited:
Yesterday April 6.

Webb updates is Uranus pic. Again, recall this planet is "horizontal" (vs. the plane of of solar system) is if at some point in its history something ran into it and knocked it over.

so that big white spot on the right side is one of its "polar" regions (its "North" pole apparently)



source: NASA’s Webb Scores Another Ringed World With New Image of Uranus
Last edited:
Ok space nerds like me. :poke:

Hubble still on the job, has seen something NEVER before seen in human history (unless somebody in the past had super-human vision). To fully appreciate the context, the link is there, plus you may need to have nerded out on black holes in your studies/interests.

First, NO danger to us, but damn ...



Above is artist's conception of Hubble observation and spectroscopy studies afterward.

A black hole (lower left), 20 billion solar masses in kilograms (a humongous number .. Sun weighs 333,000 times the Earth, so this runaway black hole weighs 2 x 10 to 33rd power kilograms times 20 billion).

The red/blue spot in upper right is the galaxy where, after a gravitational "fight" with TWO other black holes in THAT galaxy, the black hole on lower left got ejected FROM that galaxy.

So the thing at lower left is tear-a**in through interstellar space at like a million mph (thats fast but NOT on galactic scales), creating new stars out of the interstellar gas in its wake.

These new stars are the sparkling "bridge", 200,000 light years long (200,000 times 6 trillion miles), between the black hole and the galaxy it got kicked out of.

Lot going on here ... but my fascination includes this: ANOTHER predicted phenomenon (rogue black holes floating through space), like black holes themselves, that came out of MATH equations, before a single one was ever confirmed by observation.

Science "fiction", in time, becoming science "fact'. Such is the way it goes.

Wasnt that long ago (few hundred years ago) men were throwing rocks (literally screaming and flinging stones at the sky) at solar eclipses to scare away the dragon that was eating the Sun.:)
Last edited:
Webb a few days ago compared to Hubble a few years ago.

This is a galactic merger (the bright spot in the middle and all the wispy orange stuff), with a backdrop of several dozen different galaxies, of TWO spiral galaxies into one galaxy called ARP 220.

This collision is 250 million LY away, or in other words we see it now as it was 250 million years ago, and it has the luminosity of one TRILLION suns.

sources: If you want, you can nerd out here and here.

Hubble shot of ARP 220 in visible light in 1992

"An image of the central part of the ultra-luminuous infrared galaxy Arp 220 taken with the WFPC on the Hubble Space Telescope.
HST reveals a new complex structure within one arc second of the nucleus. "

Webb shot of ARP 220, wider angle and piercing the dust, in infrared taken last week.

"Shining like a brilliant beacon amidst a sea of galaxies, Arp 220 lights up the night sky in this view from NASA’s James Webb Space Telescope.

Actually two spiral galaxies in the process of merging, Arp 220 glows brightest in infrared light, making it an ideal target for Webb.

It is an ultra-luminous infrared galaxy (ULIRG) with a luminosity of more than a trillion suns. In comparison, our Milky Way galaxy has a much more modest luminosity of about ten billion suns."
Last edited:
Again, this is one of the reasons why "Jimbo" is parked out at L2 doing its thing.

You can nerd out at the link.

Recall, we have been trying to figure out how we got here .. using science (chemistry, physics, gravity, etc.,) .. for a few thousand years. Not going to get into any debate on that as people differ on how it all happened.

One scientific explanation is stars formed under gravity, lit up, matured, some of particular mass exploded in supernovae, and blasted out materials (inc. heavy elements) into interstellar space.

New stars formed outta the dust, the remaining dust circled these new stars and formed flattish "disks"

Some of the materials/elements were part of the new sun, some of it clumped in the disks and made it into planets and their atmospheres, and then in any lifeforms ON such planets.

Thats why we have iron in our blood, calcium in our bones, etc ... made in some star(s) belly billions of years ago.

These "proto-solar systems" were/are ALL over the Universe. Webb's capabilities now are allowing determination of temperatures and densities, in addition to unprecedented spectral identification (e.g., water, CO2, benzene, etc.,), of the chemistry in the dust is disks, and just floating in space between the stars. This is new information for us.

With this new info, the space kids can get closer and closer to explaining in much greater detail things that they ONLY speculated about before.

Like we predicted black holes using math, THEN finally proved their existence with imaging ... 100 years later.

Webb is observing the solar-system forming process as it happened millions/billions of years ago, depending on how far away the things are from us.

Maybe some aliens, right this minute their time, 5-6 billion LY from us, are using THEIR Webb stuff to study what THIS solar system was like when IT was a planetary disk with a baby sun and no planets yet ..

let alone lifeforms like us that are able to put OUR equipment up there, that might be looking at THEM -- before THEY became THEM!

That would be a hoot .. and neither of us would even know the other civilization exists.

We are TOO far away from each other with no way to span that unimaginaable distance .. unless that's what these UFO's (to us) are buzzing around here doing...."phoning home" about us.


artist's conception below (Webb's good, but it CANT image a "molecule" :D) of a planetary disk with a baby sun and a dust ring (the orange stuff in the illustration) in orbit around it .. no planets yet though.

source: James Webb Space Telescope reveals rich chemistry of planet-forming disks for the 1st time


excerpt from link:

"The James Webb Space Telescope (JWST or Webb) has unveiled an assortment of chemical compounds embedded in the disks of gas and dust surrounding three low-mass stars that are about five to 10 times less massive than the sun.

The "chemically diverse" compounds that Webb spotted include organic molecules like carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, acetylene and first detections of benzene, as well as the life-friendly water.

The stars studied by Webb are only a few million years old, which means the chemicals spotted by the telescope will ultimately be inherited by planets and their atmospheres that will form in these cosmic nurseries, astronomers say."
Last edited:
Webb again last week. A lot to chew on at the link. You may wanna refresh on the filament structure of the Universe we DO know about.

Every luminescent "dot" below (a CG rendering, NOT a pic we could ever take) is a galaxy (billions of them below, arranged as if on a "web-like" structure). Looks like a Pollock painting :)


Webb found a galaxy cluster, a "baby" like the now "grown up" Coma_Cluster we see today, or as it was 330 million years ago given its distance FROM us), that was a "mere" 650 million years after the Big Bang (or over 13 billion years ago).

Long story short, finding "baby clusters", in the "infant" Universe, is a spectacular find. Another thing we didn't know for sure before we parked Jimbo at L2 last year.

Lotta galaxies in the pic below, but the insets call out the ancient cluster constituents that are hard to see EVEN with naked eye IN a richly detailed Webb pic.

source: Webb Reveals Early-Universe Prequel to Huge Galaxy Cluster



"Every giant was once a baby, though you may never have seen them at that stage of their development.

NASA’s James Webb Space Telescope has begun to shed light on formative years in the history of the universe that have thus far been beyond reach: the formation and assembly of galaxies.

For the first time, a protocluster of seven galaxies has been confirmed at a distance that astronomers refer to as redshift 7.9, or a mere 650 million years after the big bang.

Based on the data collected, astronomers calculated the nascent cluster’s future development, finding that it will likely grow in size and mass to resemble the Coma Cluster, a monster of the modern universe."
Last edited:
The filament structure formed by visible matter is especially fascinating because it is the largest structure in the universe that can somewhow be imagined and visualized according to our brain's understanding. Visualizing the area (if you can call it an area, that is) where the universe is ever-expanding is much more challenging, for the artist as well as for our brain.

Actually the author of the filament rendering in the vein of Jackson Pollock is Pablo Carlos Budassi.