We can't ignore the coronavirus.....

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  1. SportFury70

    SportFury70 Senior Member

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    Guess you are right here Dave. I heard on my local news station last night that where the virus started in China, they have not had any reports of the virus in 24 hours. While here in Connecticut we now have 194 cases. We are now testing people here and are trying to get a vaccine made up to fight this. As long as the Chinese who hate America and have their missiles aimed at us are all set.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
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  2. Fratzog

    Fratzog Old Man with a Hat

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    Of course in your book Feinstein would be one of those politicians with integrity.
     
  3. Old Mike

    Old Mike Well-Known Member

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    IMG_0070.JPG Although we’re fairly well stocked, I ventured out to see if I could pick up a few things we’re light on. Wife asked me to pick up a couple of packs of chicken breasts. The only chicken still on the shelves was feet.
     
  4. sixpkrt

    sixpkrt Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    About an hour ago the governor in Illinois announced an issue to "Shelter in Place Order" that will go into effect on Saturday.
    He also asked that all non-essential businesses to close, and that schools will remain closed through the end of the month.
    The morning news announced Chicago's City Hall will be closed indefinitely.
    I expect to see the same mobs at the stores today and tomorrow, buying everything else that has still been left remaining on the shelves.
     
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  5. polara71

    polara71 Old Man with a Hat

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    WTF
     
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  6. polara71

    polara71 Old Man with a Hat

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    NJ is expected to do the same Saturday.

    I'm just as guilty, buying, stocking. I have enough for 45 days.
     
  7. polara71

    polara71 Old Man with a Hat

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    This is why I love this president, tells it like it is. He is more genuine than any other I can remember.
     
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  8. sixpkrt

    sixpkrt Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    Same here. My wife took care of that last weekend.
     
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  9. Davea Lux

    Davea Lux Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    I certainly would not put it past the ChiComs to do something like that. Question is what do they gain by trashing their own economy by putting the world into a recession? They have to sell their junk to someone who can afford to buy it.

    Dave
     
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  10. Joseph James

    Joseph James Senior Member

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    China’s economy has been in trouble for a while. I put nothing past the Chicoms, I don’t believe their virus numbers and I hope they are treated as the pariah state they are after loosing this virus on the world.
     
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  11. sixpkrt

    sixpkrt Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    The author of the book China Rx was on the news last night. During her interview she mentioned America closed the last aspirin manufacturer in America a year ago, and that we are near 100% dependent on drugs being made out of the country today, with the primary makers are now in China.
    That is a piece of info caught me by surprise. I had no idea.
    It should make anyone really think how much damage the Politian's and corporations have done to this country in the last 1/2 century, by getting in bed with a communist country. They have placed us, our country, in a very compromising position.
    I hope the other world countries recognize the sinister events everyone is facing because of the pandemic, and cut-off all ties with China.
    If that were to happen, their economy would go into a death spiral. Over time their factories will close and the workers would be forced back to the rice fields.
     
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  12. polara71

    polara71 Old Man with a Hat

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    Well for one if our economy crashes and Trump takes the fall then they've eliminated him and can get back to the normalcy of robbing us blind without the Pitbull.
    Trade deal, Tariffs and anti China / pro America chatter goes away.
    Two, China manufactures 70% of the pharmaceuticals, ( supposedly) wheres that coming from to ease the pain? They didn't think Trump would get the American private sector rolling...

    Three, dont think that Russia messing with the oil production at this precise time was an accident. They wanna crash the American oil market . Coupled with the stock market crashing it's a double whammy.
    Four ,I'm still looking to see how Bloomberg was / is connected in all this. He made millions from the Chinese. I dont care that he donated 40 million to help the Chinese virus cause, he cant be trusted.

    Five, as markets crash all over the world the Chinese could look like heros sending supplies "helping" making friends but in reality only trying to get into other economies for control.

    Trust no one!
     
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  13. Fratzog

    Fratzog Old Man with a Hat

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    Yet we keep voting in globalist leaders that want to suck up to them. The old saying is a definition of insanity is continuing to do the same thing expecting a different result.
     
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  14. polara71

    polara71 Old Man with a Hat

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    facebook_15847468813051.jpg
     
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  15. MoPar Maniac

    MoPar Maniac Well-Known Member

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  16. polara71

    polara71 Old Man with a Hat

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    Since the WHO is at the least 50% funded by the Chinese they have no credibility, none! The WHO of course looked the other way, they were paid to.
     
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  17. MoPar Maniac

    MoPar Maniac Well-Known Member

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    If you will recall WHO said there was nothing to worry about in Italy.
     
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  18. tbm3fan

    tbm3fan Senior Member

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    I'll give you a pass since you are not local and have zero idea of what you talk about at this time.

    Her assets have been in a blind trust since was elected to the Senate long ago. Common knowledge. Her husband, Richard Blum, is an investment banker and was before getting married to Feinstein. He is free to do what he wants as that is his occupation and he is a private citizen. Of course this takes knowledge which is in short supply sometimes as seen here...
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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  19. Carmine

    Carmine Old Man with a Hat

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    Well, I'm gonna test the water with this here...

    First of all, my grandmother; who was really more like a mother to me, passed away of flu-turned-pneumonia at age 83. I'm pretty sure she hadn't left the house before getting the flu, so the chances are good it was brought into her home. Could have been a relative, could have been my grandfather, or it could have been me. Yes, me... because I came over often to keep them from feeling like some fragile "objects" with no connection to the world anymore. Often I brought pizza. I was there when they pulled the ventilator and I watched the life fade from her eyes. Part of me wished I could forget that, part of me doesn't want to loose any memory of her.

    Until now, I never spent any time wondering who was "patient zero". While she was in the hospital, an IV line was somehow pinched by a hospital bed wheel. My grandfather never lost his anger about this, but I forgave because I knew it ultimately wouldn't have made a difference. She had COPD, this wasn't her first bout of pneumonia, and she'd been unconscious well before the IV was inserted. Suing every medical professional and facility who loses an elderly patient is just going to mean fewer will treat them, or drive costs to the point the elderly poor will suffer. Obviously they have the worst recovery odds.

    I tell you this story to show that I've not only experienced the flu/pneumonia/old age death of a loved one, but that I also know where to draw the line when it comes to risk/reward.

    This is a cut/paste. I'll post the link at the bottom. I think it's time to have this discussion. The author expresses this as eloquently as I could ever hope to do. I have added bold emphasis to what I think is especially important.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The current gamble seems to be to shut down the nation indefinitely to suppress a virus that is especially deadly to some demographics and experts agree cannot be contained, only slowed. The New York Times claims the basis of many U.S. officials’ decisions so far is a report from Imperial College London, and other models that spit out similar results. It says to contain the virus it will be necessary to quarantine Americans for two- to three-month stretches repeatedly over the next 18 months.


    The alternative, says the report, is 4 million Americans dead, half who would otherwise have lived but instead die for lack of medical capacity such as ventilators. If we merely quarantine sick people and those at risk, a “mitigation” strategy, it projects the U.S. death toll at about 2 million, again half from lack of ventilators, not depth of disease.

    This is why state governors are shutting down restaurants, schools, entertainment venues, government offices, parks, historical sites, churches, and travel. Most Americans and businesses likely can sustain a suspension of their lives for two weeks, the usual annual vacation time.

    But start extending these bans to one and two months, and then to four and six months, and people are going to revolt as they sit chained to their houses, watching their jobs, businesses, and retirement accounts disappear, replaced with funny money taken from yet-unborn generations and no end in sight. Numerous people are already skeptical and fed up with the lockdowns, and we’re not a week in.

    Computer Estimates Can’t Weigh All of the Real Risks
    Plus, these are just estimates, not a crystal ball. We can’t know the future, and different countries have already shown highly different disease spreads based on different population characteristics, health care capacity, and government response.

    Just one competing projection, from the Hoover Institution, suggests “the total number of cases world-wide will peak out at well under 1 million, with the total number of deaths at under 50,000″ (emphasis added). This is near the annual death rate due to flu in the United States alone. We don’t know if that estimate is accurate either, but that’s the point.

    Here’s another hysteria skeptic with impeccable medical and statistical knowledge, John P.A. Ioannidis, a professor of medicine, epidemiology, and statistics at Stanford University and co-director of Stanford’s Meta-Research Innovation Center.

    If we assume that case fatality rate among individuals infected by SARS-CoV-2 is 0.3% in the general population — a mid-range guess from my Diamond Princess analysis — and that 1% of the U.S. population gets infected (about 3.3 million people), this would translate to about 10,000 deaths. This sounds like a huge number, but it is buried within the noise of the estimate of deaths from ‘influenza-like illness.’ If we had not known about a new virus out there, and had not checked individuals with PCR tests, the number of total deaths due to ‘influenza-like illness’ would not seem unusual this year. At most, we might have casually noted that flu this season seems to be a bit worse than average. The media coverage would have been less than for an NBA game between the two most indifferent teams.
    Some worry that the 68 deaths from Covid-19 in the U.S. as of March 16 will increase exponentially to 680, 6,800, 68,000, 680,000 … along with similar catastrophic patterns around the globe. Is that a realistic scenario, or bad science fiction?

    We’re acting as if coronavirus is for sure going to amount to the worst-case scenario without knowing that is true. If we all do shelter in place for the next year and a half while politicians pass the equivalent of the Obama-Bush stimulus that suffocated the economy 12 years ago, the “experts” will insist the nation’s long-term ability to provide for itself was required to save millions of lives. There will be no way to prove them wrong, even if they are.

    It seems a fool’s errand to pre-emptively and indefinitely risk everyone’s livelihoods without hard information about what is happening and a risk assessment that includes the serious dangers of killing the U.S. economy, not what computers project will happen with lots of missing, unreliable, and rapidly changing information.

    Some Things We Do Know Indicate Cautious Optimism
    The current numbers we have not only show that different countries are managing the disease better and worse, but that not one of the countries further along in the spread of the virus is anywhere close yet to indicating these apocalyptic numbers for the United States, at least in the next two to three months.

    Here is a chart my husband made using WHO, CDC, and other public data about deaths per day of outbreak. It shows the U.S. death rate due to Wuhan flu is much lower at the same stage of the outbreak than most of the other high-spread countries.
    upload_2020-3-20_20-14-38.png
    upload_2020-3-20_20-15-16.png

    Sharyl Attkisson has gone through the U.S. deaths to March 17, and as in other countries they are overwhelmingly among the very elderly and people with pre-existing conditions. The entire population is not at severe risk from coronavirus — although we are at severe risk from a wrecked economy and welfare expansions beyond Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s wildest dreams.

    If we continue the present course U.S. politicians are taking, “we’ll be spending a lot more than we’ve ever been willing to spend before to avoid flu deaths. Eighty-three percent of our economy will be suppressed to relieve pressure on the 17% represented by health care. This will have to last months, not weeks, to modulate the rate at which a critical mass of 330 million get infected and acquire natural immunity,” writes Holman Jenkins at The Wall Street Journal.

    Is it right for the nation to require our children’s futures be destroyed to keep alive less than 1 percent of our population until the next flu season? Could we not attempt to keep them safe by less disastrous means?

    Most Working- and School-Age Americans Are at Low Risk
    Every year, 40,000 Americans die in car wrecks. I don’t see any critical mass of politicians calling for banning cars, and if they did, they would lose their next election. That’s because we as Americans have decided that the benefits of modern transportation outweigh the lives of 40,000 Americans a year, which a few years ago included my own young brother. Do I still drive a car? Daily.


    My point here is not that I like people dying. It’s that very often our society chooses to allow deaths because the alternative is worse. I’m suggesting the severe social and economic tradeoffs of unlimited quarantine are an important consideration that is not being taken seriously enough.

    That’s especially true because the majority of people now being kept home are not at severe risk. Here are the currently known fatality risks by age and comorbidity (pre-existing health problems), from WHO and Chinese data:

    upload_2020-3-20_20-17-35.png

    upload_2020-3-20_20-18-20.png

    A Depression Will Ruin 330 Million Lives, Not 4 Million
    The costs Americans are being forced to bear may be more than is rational to impose. Already one-fifth of working Americans are being laid off and having work hours cut due to not even one week of suspensions.

    “[T]he massive curtailments of the U.S. economy can have as many health consequences as the virus itself—if millions lose income and jobs, become depressed in self-isolation, increase smoking, and drug and alcohol use, and postpone out of fear necessary buying and visits to doctors and hospitals for chronic and serious medical conditions unrelated to the virus,” writes Victor Davis Hanson.


    What if the real scenario is one of these:

    1) We plunge the nation into a depression that kills many businesses and addicts millions to welfare, in a nation that has already pledged more welfare than it can afford for at least the next three generations. Because of this depression, many people die due to poverty, lack of medical care, and despair. Millions more transform from workers to takers, causing a faster implosion of our already mathematically impossible welfare state.


    2) The nation quarantines only at-risk populations and those with symptoms, like South Korea has, and ensures targeted and temporary taxpayer support to those groups, goes nuts cranking out ventilators and other crisis equipment such as temporary hospitals using emergency response crews, while the rest of us keep calm, wash our hands, take extreme care with the at-risk groups, and carry on.

    Why would the entire nation grind to a halt when the entire nation is not at a severe risk? I would rather have a flu I am 99.8 percent likely to survive than the nation plunged into chaos indefinitely because we pulled the plug on our economy during a stampede.

    At the very least, Congress should wait a week or two, while half the nation or more is home, to see how the infection rates look as millions of test kits go out. The worst-case scenario they are predicating their actions on may not be the one we’re facing. Prudence suggests a measured, wait and see approach to policy until we have better information, not chucking trillions of my kids’ dollars out the window “just in case.”

    Joy Pullmann is executive editor of The Federalist, a happy wife, and the mother of five children. Newly out: the second edition of her ebook recommending more than 400 classic books for young children. She is also the author of “The Education Invasion: How Common Core Fights Parents for Control of American Kids,” from Encounter Books. She identifies as native American and gender natural. Find her on Twitter @JoyPullmann.

    Will The Costs Of A Great Depression Outweigh The Risks Of Coronavirus?


     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2020
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  20. polara71

    polara71 Old Man with a Hat

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    :lol: Yeah , that's why.
     
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