Which Mancini electronic ignition kit to choose?

WissaMan

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I want to convert my 440 over to electronic ignition and am trying to decide on which Mopar Performance kit to order from Mancini Racing. They have one that's described as "Hi-Po" and one that's not. The Hi-Po claims "performance advance curve".

Also, should I be replacing the coil at the same time? Currently it has an old-looking stock coil (which seems to work fine). I don't need anything that's brightly colored or attention getting, just something that'll do the job properly.

Right now the engine is stock except for a Street Demon carb. However, down the road I plan on other bolt-on upgrades such as dual exhaust and intake manifold.
 
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Chrysler came out with their electronic ignition in 1972 on some models. In '73 it was standard on all lines. Save yourself some money and aggravation. Get a standard Mopar electronic ignition setup. Tried and true. Never mind the b.s.
Seen too many guys go with pertronix etc. And have nothing but trouble.
 
Last time I looked, Mopar Perf still had the electronic ignition kit in their catalog, but others in her claim it's been discontinued. past that . . .

The MP kit had a distributor with "a performance ignition curve" in it. It brought in full advance at about 3000rpm, rather than the stock distributor's 4400rpm+ engine speed. To me, other than a NEW distributor, the kit had the necessary wiring harness for the kit, which to me, is a big help. If you might need to lengthen some things, you can splice into it and make factory-looking connections, which makes for a neater installation.

The coil in the MP kit is probably an OEM item of stock capacity. I suspect that all of the current OEM-style coils are probably the electronic ones? As long as the sparks happen, that's all that matters, to me. A coil rated at 50KV will only produce that much IF it's necessary to fire the plugs. Otherwise, it will produce 10KV at cruise and offer no real benefits, other than cosmetic.

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
I have heard good and bad with all systems including points. With the Mopar electronic Ignition many said keep a spare in the glove box cause they can burn out. It was pointed out they are made somewhere in Asia now and quality can be hit or miss. Don't know the Mancini unit. Pertronics some swear by. I have heard overall the Ignitor 1 or their base model is the most reliable ,fits under the dizzy cap and you can't see it. Even their coil is black and you can jump the ballast resistor with a wire and keep the stock look completely. As for me I run points in my 440 and it runs great. I put in a reman points distributor because the lobes on the old one were worn. I change the points once or twice a year and get out the dwell meter and set her up which I enjoy. I keep an extra set of points,Ballast resistor and an old coil in my trunk. I am going to run the vintage new in box points sets I bought from Halifaxhops here on the forum.
 
Which year 440 engine are you planning to convert? Keep in mind that you should not run electronic ignition with a mechanical voltage regulator, electronics will usually fail because they do not like static. If you have an older 440 with the mechanical regulator and early style alternator, both of those units should be replaced as part of the conversion. You are running a basic stock motor and you will not get a whole lot of benefit from the high performance type electronic ignition so it really is not necessary unless you plan to add a performance cam at a later date. I am a big believer in the stock Mopar electronic ignition because it is pretty much bullet proof. As mentioned above, it is often more practical to just run points. A bad point set is easy to replace, a shorted ECM or pickup module, not so easy on the side of the road some place. My 2 cents.

Dave
 
When I first heard of Pertronix, on another forum, all they had was (what is now) Ignitor. The other ones came later and have other features, like multi-strike spark capability. The people on that other board highly recommended the Ignitor (now the Ignitor 1 base unit) over points.

The main issue with points, well there are TWO in more recent times, is the cam lobe wear mentioned above. Lobe wear which can be influenced by many newer point sets NOT having the prior little vial of breaker point lube in them. No lube on the rubbing block on the points and the points don't keep adjustment like they used to and the distributor cam lobes the rubbing block rides on can also wear quicker. Going electronic gets rid of those issues.

BUT . . . every electronic control box needs a certain level of battery voltage to work and fire the plugs. With points, all it takes is a spark between the points to send a spark to a spark plug that can fire things off. In some cases, that can mean the difference in getting rolling with a weak battery or calling a tow truck, by observation.

With the lack of distributor points spring tension acting on the distributor cam, plus the balance rotor, the bushings in a Chrysler electronic distributor should last forever, as all it does is "spin". Add the lack of maintenance and it can be a pretty nice total deal!

Of course, with a B/RB engine, pulling the distributor in and out is no big deal. Easier than leaning across a fender to change points on a Chevy, as with the Chrysler unit, it can be done on a work bench instead. Just remember to set the dwell before you set the basic timing.

Plusses and minuses with everything . . . just depends which ones you want to deal with.

CBODY67
 
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I want to get rid of the points so we don't have to worry about replacing, adjusting, etc. I'm sure we're going to have plenty to upkeep on this oldie so any spots we can make more reliable I want to do so. I'm not worried about keeping a stock look.

I actually put a MP electronic ignition conversion on my 68 New Yorker back around 1990 then never drove it. I mean, I started it and drove it around a little so I know it ran, but for all intents and purposes, it has no miles on it. So I *could* swap that over to the 300, but I don't want to start disassembling the NYer since it ran when I parked it all those years ago.

These are the two items I'm looking at:
Electronic Distributor Conversion Kit
Electronic Distributor Conversion Kit, Hi-Po ECU

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the first kit would be like upgrading to the factory stock electronic ignition and the second option would be like upgrading to the original MP kit?

Or is the first kit like the old MP kit and the second is even more aggressive?

Neither kit seems to come with a coil.

I have already installed FuryGT's electronic voltage regulator. I searched and read some posts regarding alternators and I'm pretty sure mine is still the original style. What happens if I install the electronic ignition but don't upgrade the alternator?
 
When I first heard of Pertronix, on another forum, all they had was (what is now) Ignitor. The other ones came later and have other features, like multi-strike spark capability. The people on that other board highly recommended the Ignitor (now the Ignitor 1 base unit) over points.

The main issue with points, well there are TWO in more recent times, is the cam lobe wear mentioned above. Lobe wear which can be influenced by many newer point sets NOT having the prior little vial of breaker point lube in them. No lube on the rubbing block on the points and the points don't keep adjustment like they used to and the distributor cam lobes the rubbing block rides on can also wear quicker. Going electronic gets rid of those issues.

BUT . . . every electronic control box needs a certain level of battery voltage to work and fire the plugs. With points, all it takes is a spark between the points to send a spark to a spark plug that can fire things off. In some cases, that can mean the difference in getting rolling with a weak battery or calling a tow truck, by observation.

With the lack of distributor points spring tension acting on the distributor cam, plus the balance rotor, the bushings in a Chrysler electronic distributor should last forever, as all it does is "spin". Add the lack of maintenance and it can be a pretty nice total deal!

Of course, with a B/RB engine, pulling the distributor in and out is no big deal. Easier than leaning across a fender to change points on a Chevy, as with the Chrysler unit, it can be done on a work bench instead. Just remember to set the dwell before you set the basic timing.

Plusses and minuses with everything . . . just depends which ones you want to deal with.

CBODY67

Believe it or not, Standard Motor Products still makes the distributor cam lubricant, Product is called SL-2 (Lubricam), and it is available on Amazon for about $10 per 4oz tube. That is enough to last as long as any of us.

Dave
 
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I want to get rid of the points so we don't have to worry about replacing, adjusting, etc. I'm sure we're going to have plenty to upkeep on this oldie so any spots we can make more reliable I want to do so. I'm not worried about keeping a stock look.

I actually put a MP electronic ignition conversion on my 68 New Yorker back around 1990 then never drove it. I mean, I started it and drove it around a little so I know it ran, but for all intents and purposes, it has no miles on it. So I *could* swap that over to the 300, but I don't want to start disassembling the NYer since it ran when I parked it all those years ago.

These are the two items I'm looking at:
Electronic Distributor Conversion Kit
Electronic Distributor Conversion Kit, Hi-Po ECU

Unless I'm misunderstanding, the first kit would be like upgrading to the factory stock electronic ignition and the second option would be like upgrading to the original MP kit?

Or is the first kit like the old MP kit and the second is even more aggressive?

Neither kit seems to come with a coil.

I have already installed FuryGT's electronic voltage regulator. I searched and read some posts regarding alternators and I'm pretty sure mine is still the original style. What happens if I install the electronic ignition but don't upgrade the alternator?

The factory coil is fine with the electronic conversion as long as it is working properly. The later style alternators were designed to work with electronic ignition. They have better insulation on the field windings so as to produce less static. Your electronic conversion will no doubt run with the older alternator, but its life expectancy will probably be shorter. Check the technical specs for what ever conversion you decide on to see if a "low static" or static suppressed alternator is required. Mancini tech support should have this information. If you call them, they are usually very helpful and can tell you what electronics will be best for your vehicle.

Dave
 
As an alternative, buy a rebuilt distributor, a MOPAR Performance wiring harness, a good quality ECU/Module (I sell a very good Marine rated ECU for $20 + shipping but I am currently out of stock), an ACCELL cap & rotor and a heavy duty ballast resistor and save yourself some money. If you car is a '69 or older you will also need a solid state voltage regulator (which I also sell and am currently out of stock of and will have more soon).
 
I just spent a good while looking at electronic ignition "stuff". ACCEL used to have a mag-trigger/Chrysler-style distributor, tan cap and all, but since Holley now owns that name, very little of the earlier stuff is still around, much less for Mopars. Unless you want one of their MSD items.

They do still have a version of the old Mallory UniLIte system in a conversion kit, though!

Seems that most of the point distributor electronic ignition conversion kits are repackaged Pertronix Ignitors, from looking at the pictures of them in RockAuto and such. The Pertronix catalog, which I finally downloaded for easier reading, has a graph of their Ignitor system and it's spark energy vs. a points system. Much more juice in the lower rpm ranges, but matches the points system from about 5000rpm+. Rather than the Chrysler "paddle wheel" reluctor, seems they have that stuff built into the bottom of a funky-looking distributor rotor?

I did find that A-1 Cardone has NEW point distributors for B/RB motors. Price in RockAuto was less than the reman point distributors from other companies. But those items are a "broad-fit" item, which have OEM part numbers they replace from 1960-1971, which also means a "generic" advance curve rather than an application-specific curve per swalloe.

This also means there has to be a supply of adjustable vac advance canisters around, somewhere, to feed the building of these distributors, too.

End result was that I didn't like what I found in Holley/ACCEL/Mallory or in Pertronix, either one. I might be inclined to use a A-1 Cardone item (even if it came repackaged in a NAPA box) and then set the total advance and hope the resulting initial advance was about 10 degrees BTDC or so. So much of what we used to have is now gone or combined with other product lines to "vanish". Standard Motor Parts has some ignition parts, too, just as their have lots of other car parts, too. So that might be an option, but possibly the same options as others might have.

A while back, I looked at the Mancini electronic ignition items. One of their kits seemed to mimic the Mopar Perf kit, which was good. The other one seemed to be more generic in nature. Pricing was good, too. At least they have a heritage in Mopar Performance items, so they ought to know what's what in that area, I hope!

I know there have been some comments about where various car parts are made these days. Unfortunately, not everything is made "here" any more, but "some where else". It's been said that certain origin-countries' items are inferior or have a higher failure rate than others done domestically. I can see that, BUT then I was in the Carter fuel pump catalog the other day. Seems the Carter manual pumps come from S Korea and the EFI modules come from China. And Carter is a very respected name in fuel system products. So my point is that all of these parts, where ever they come from, should all be built to a particular set of blueprints and criteria, no matter where they are built. Same as to failure rates and related quality control issues (a KEY point to consider!). They all have the same warranty coverage, no matter point of origin, too.

In the case of a suspected pre-mature failure, it's not that the one brand of part failed allegedly too soon, but how the seller handled the warranty issues related to the situation. If the counter people were accommodating, then the customer will probably return for other parts later on. If not, "customers have options they can exercise to their desires", regarding future purchases.

So, by observation, it's not specifically where the part is built, but what the CONTRACTOR wants to pay for or not pay for, in the way of material quality and projected failure rates. As for build quality, that can always be a little variable, but as one engineer allegedly stated one time (paraphrased), "IF we did our design correctly, if we threw the parts off of a 3rd floor balcony, by the time the parts hit the ground, they would have correctly assembled themselves." Be that as it may!

ONE thing I always liked about the Mopar Perf electronic ignition conversion kits was that they were all built to OEM production specs. Distributor, wiring harness, control boxes, etc. Which meant they were very good and durable. Perhaps that has been altered a bit in later years?

Just as it was 50+ years ago, the people in the auto repair trade usually know where to get the better parts. Whether from a dealership, a large auto supply, or variations thereof. Nothing's changed in that respect, by observation. Sometimes, it depends upon what the customer can afford to pay for! In getting the repair done or what parts are used in doing it.

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
I know there have been some comments about where various car parts are made these days. Unfortunately, not everything is made "here" any more, but "some where else". It's been said that certain origin-countries' items are inferior or have a higher failure rate than others done domestically. I can see that, BUT then I was in the Carter fuel pump catalog the other day. Seems the Carter manual pumps come from S Korea and the EFI modules come from China. And Carter is a very respected name in fuel system products. So my point is that all of these parts, where ever they come from, should all be built to a particular set of blueprints and criteria, no matter where they are built. Same as to failure rates and related quality control issues (a KEY point to consider!). They all have the same warranty coverage, no matter point of origin, too.

In the case of a suspected pre-mature failure, it's not that the one brand of part failed allegedly too soon, but how the seller handled the warranty issues related to the situation. If the counter people were accommodating, then the customer will probably return for other parts later on. If not, "customers have options they can exercise to their desires", regarding future purchases.

So, by observation, it's not specifically where the part is built, but what the CONTRACTOR wants to pay for or not pay for, in the way of material quality and projected failure rates. As for build quality, that can always be a little variable, but as one engineer allegedly stated one time (paraphrased), "IF we did our design correctly, if we threw the parts off of a 3rd floor balcony, by the time the parts hit the ground, they would have correctly assembled themselves." Be that as it may!

CBODY67

I have been trying to tell people for many years that not everything made in ASIA is junk. The Solid State '69 & earlier Voltage Regulators and the ECU/Ignition Modules that I have been selling for 15 years or so are made in China but they are made by a company called Regitar USA. Regitar USA is a worldwide manufacturer of many types of automotive parts and they also make cordless tools under the AC Delco and Durofix. The products that I sell have a VERY low failure rate and I never know on the rare occasion that a customer tells me about a defective part whether or not the part failed due to incorrect installation, incorrect application or if the car had a problem that caused the part to fail.

Well said on all CBODY67!
 
The Mancini Hi-Po kit has a the spec and install document posted online which I read through. It does not mention the need for any specific kind of alternator but does recommend a solid state regulator (which I already have from FuryGT). It does state that full mechanical advance is at 2000 RPM on this distributor. Is that advance too aggressive for a stock motor with bolt-ons? We plan to always run 93 octane in this car along with lead substitute (dunno if that does anything to help the octane, however). The "regular" kit does not have a similar document posted online, unfortunately.

The document also mentions the need for a minimum of 12.5 volts which so many here have already indicated. This has me thinking it might be a good idea to connect my Volt gauge to the ECU's positive wire so I can always see how many volts are directly at the ECU.

FuryGT, I appreciate the do-it-yourself suggestion to save some money but in this case I don't mind spending a few extra dollars for the convenience of a ready to go kit.
 
Beware new electronic ignition conversion kits. Member here had the inner drive pieces inside the distributor fail/not turn = no start.
 
Stock engine or mildly warmed up, go with the re-curved distributor.
Why?
Today's gas is not the same as it was in 1966.

Speaking from experience,big blocks love lots of initial timing but not so much advance.
Pertronix work great and helps keep the engine bay look stock.
But I had to weld in the slots in the dizzy to reduce the mechanical advance (too much ping).
That and a 50 year old points dizzy that was well worn and a vacuum advance that was stuck.
By the time I reworked the old dizzy just as well get a new one.

A stock 440 should be happy around 10 to 11.5 degrees initial and 34-38 degrees total all in.
Vacuum should be between 17 and 20 inches at idle.
But each case should be taken individually (closed chamber heads,size of carb,etc,etc)
A big heavy car needs all the advance in early to get the tonnage moving.

I drove with points,then did the Pertronix conversions,and then did the ECU conversion.
I am using the Summit Racing conversion kit with the orange box.
The distributor in the kit already came with a re-curve and works great!
I integrated the wiring into the factory harness to look clean.
Nowadays more people want to drive their cars and want to make them more reliable.
Upgrading to electronic ignition has always been a wise choice and the show crowd don;t mind seeing a few extra wires and an ECU under the hood.
Hope this helps in your decision making.
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BTW,I am also using an electronic voltage regulator under a NOS factory cover and a Powermaster "Roundback" 70 amp alternator that is dual field but I have a jumper wire on he second field grounded to the casing.
 
I'm not the original poster, but have carefully read all comments here as I'm planning on converting the points distributor the previous owner installed on my 78 New Yorker.

Truth be told I'm more confused now than when I started reading this thread.:rofl:
 
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When I did the conversion on my '67 Newport 383, I was using a MSD-5C box (a replacement for the stock Chrysler ECU, but with the MSD multi-spark feature, with a stock Chrysler plug-in connector for plug-play). I wanted to conceal it rather than drill holes to mount it "in the way". I found a hidden fender extension stud at the lh front sheet metal. Same size as the mounting hole in the MSD box, electrically good, so that's where I put it. Spliced-in a wiring section to run it, then hid those wires under the existing harness on the lh frt fender wiring. I used the factory voltage regulator (after an experiences with the "constant voltage" Mopar Perf replacement.

I continued the wiring to the cowl (under existing wiring) and then down the rh valve cover to the electronic distributor (again, under existing wiring, including a wire to the once-used elec assist choke I tried). I like incognito upgrades!

Seems like it starts a bit quicker, but not a big lot of improvement, in general. Stock 383 4bbl with Torker 383 intake and various OEM-spec carbs. But I know it has to be better with the electronics on it, especially replacing a distributor (even tried a used 6-pk dual point at once point in time!) with worn cam lobes on it. Stock coil, stock alternator, stock regulator. No mention in the MSD install sheet about needing an electronic regulator. It all works at least as good as the '72 factory system.

If the quick advance is too quick, easier to put a stiffer spring on one of the advance weights than to shorten the advance weight movement slot in the distributor. Earlier Direct Connection Race Manuals suggested just removing the heavier spring on the weights, letting the lighter one control both weights, which swing out in unison, for a quicker advance curve.

In reality, a "cleaner" voltage quality should always work better than not. Just that some items might not require it. The battery can dampen some of the voltage irregularities in supply a bit, as I recall. Many reman alternators upgraded to the isolated field and larger cooling ducts on the rear case long ago, by observation. Newer cores replaced the older cores as a normal progression of things.

When I was looking at the engine wiring schematic for a '75-era Chrysler, I noted that the additional field wiring went directly to the then-new electric choke-assist heater, which is internally grounded. FWIW.

Whatever works . . .
CBODY67
 
In many cases, the ignition advance "needs" of a Chrysler B/RB engine are similar in amount to small block Chevy engines. Both like 38-40 degrees of total advance for best performance. In later years, how well the heads "work" and how efficient the combustion chamber configuration is can affect this requirement downward, by observation. Which can also relate to how much residual EGR is present from an exhaust system that doesn't work as well as it might (from the exhaust valve outward!).

On our '66 Newport 383 2bbl, it spec'd at 12.5 degrees BTDC for base timing. This resulted in about 38 degrees total advance. With the closed chamber stock heads, I found I could set the idle speed by changing the base timing. With it at 12.5 BTDC, rotating it advanced about 1/4" would linearly increase the idle speed about 50rpm.

When I got my '70 Monaco 383 4bbl, with the stock 906 heads, I could not do it that way. More timing from the base spec made LITTLE difference in the base idle speed.

Somewhere I read that Chrysler deliberately put the base timing for their 4bbl engines (which would naturally see "fleet duty" in police vehicles, for which were usually fueled out of a tank of "regular-grade fuel", along with tractors and backhoes, so they wouldn't clatter too much at WOT on those lower octane fuels. Kind of makes se.nse when you're deeply into police fleet business. AND something the distributor and base timing specs tend to bear out in some model years. So, not always due to emissions regulations, in earlier times. FWIW

CBODY67
 
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