Had to replace radiator

[66/440]

Yes... The NYB has a new radiator, but I still felt the temperatures got a little higher than I liked (no accurate measurements, just gauge position) I put a full dose of wetting agent in and didn't seem to make enough difference. That one could use a good flushing IMO and a little more time spent on the issue... but it has me second guessing what I want to do for the 2 door.

The 2 door needs me to put together A/C hoses and a radiator. I also am thinking of replacing the condenser instead of reusing the single pass. The leak is small, but no sense not fully addressing things while I'm there.

The Imperials are gorgeous... the small detail stuff that I am picking away at is because I never want to have to subject them to "plan B" on the road due to breakdowns. I also am the type who is bothered by anything that is not fully working... I just purchased mirrors from another member because I had a cable not working well. Mine are too pretty to consider a full replacement.

As I work through stuff, the NYB is a great test mule for me that I don't have to worry about where I park it. It is interesting to me how much a sense of duty to the Twins and Mr C I feel...

BTW 77 up there is a condenser(dual pass?) available and a partial manifold hose assembly from the big chain parts stores... I am thinking about which pieces I will run.

I also received with the NYB the old radiator that needs a top tank... so I have enough pieces to try a radiator shop too.

I bought the AC kit from Bouchillion and it works very well. However now that I have seen whats in the kit I will just purchase what I need for my T&C from a AC supply house. Here is the link to the multi-pass condensers they offer: ac multipass condensers - Bouchillon Performance Engineering
I can purchase the condenser for $75 to $90 depending on size. It is a universal fit and required fabrication of mounting brackets.

 

[cantflip]

I bought the AC kit from Bouchillion and it works very well. However now that I have seen whats in the kit I will just purchase what I need for my T&C from a AC supply house. Here is the link to the multi-pass condensers they offer: ac multipass condensers - Bouchillon Performance Engineering
I can purchase the condenser for $75 to $90 depending on size. It is a universal fit and required fabrication of mounting brackets.

Thanks... command1 already had me turned on to them. Unfortunately the week before Carlisle they were closed and I was NOT wanting to buy stuff in a panic... I have already installed a reman RV2, not convinced I wanted to play with brackets just now and I prefer things look more or less factory... I may change my mind later.

I am curious, has anyone tried painting the aluminum radiator/condensers with black heat dissipation paint? That would go a long way for me warming up to the idea...

 

[66/440]

Thanks... command1 already had me turned on to them. Unfortunately the week before Carlisle they were closed and I was NOT wanting to buy stuff in a panic... I have already installed a reman RV2, not convinced I wanted to play with brackets just now and I prefer things look more or less factory... I may change my mind later.

I am curious, has anyone tried painting the aluminum radiator/condensers with black heat dissipation paint? That would go a long way for me warming up to the idea...

If you go to the marine supply and buy a can of zinc chromate primer and prime before painting the black will stay on.

 

[commando1]

Can'tflip, at the Garlits show I will show you what I consider a great solution.
In a nutshell, Champion 3 row, twin pushers on a parallel-flow condenser.
I'll show you right down to the nuts and bolts on how to keep you and your engine cool while hitting all 300 traffic lights on International Blvd. At 3:00PM. In August....

 

[cantflip]

Can'tflip, at the Garlits show I will show you what I consider a great solution.
In a nutshell, Champion 3 row, twin pushers on a parallel-flow condenser.
I'll show you right down to the nuts and bolts on how to keep you and your engine cool while hitting all 300 traffic lights on International Blvd. At 3:00PM. In August....

Thanks, although I intend to have it finished before then... and I avoid International Drive all I can... place is nuts (tourists, drunks and scumbags looking to take advantage of the other 2 categories)

Could I trouble you for a reference photo? I don't intend to paint the core... but I don't want to led on the dumbasses that I've built a race car either... I think blacking out the tanks will suit my tastes and not affect cooling. Looking at multiple sources, I see lots of promising radiators for $200 and condensers for $100... ish... the pusher fans are a wise investment for idle speed A/C IMO... are yours on a thermostatic switch?

I think I will go with the BPE multi-pass condenser like (I believe) you did. I also want to incorporate a replaceable filter just before the compressor... The only piece I will reuse is the evaporator and I have flushed it thoroughly... but always better to be safe.

I am planning to bring both twins to Garlits, if Management cooperates... but I haven't really worked out the logistics as of yet. I know their adoring public is interested in seeing them (I can take no credit for this). My apologies to anyone disappointed they didn't get to Carlisle, but I think I made the right call.

 

[cantflip]

This is the hose assembly I have been thinking of starting with... But I will wait until I figure out if I'm having a local shop finish it or if I can borrow a crimp tool to do it myself.


Murray Climate Control - Hose Assembly
Line: MRY | Part # 55090
$54.99 Each

In Your Shopping List!
Availability
Ship to Home: Currently Unavailable
Free Pick Up In-Store: Call Store for Details

 

[commando1]

Could I trouble you for a reference photo? I don't intend to paint the core... but I don't want to led on the dumbasses that I've built a race car either... I think blacking out the tanks will suit my tastes and not affect cooling. Looking at multiple sources, I see lots of promising radiators for $200 and condensers for $100... ish... the pusher fans are a wise investment for idle speed A/C IMO... are yours on a thermostatic switch

A continuing blog of my A/C conversion journey.

Basically, I started with a Champion 3 row. They say perfect fit but you have to modify the brackets to line up with properly with the mounting locations on the radiator support. Also, you will have to fabricae new mounts on the radiator for the shroud to fit properly.

Finally, the shroud will need trimming where the transmission lines connect to the radiator. How are you at TIG welding....

The condenser is a universal fit with dimensions closest to the OEM one.

You need two of the smallest pusher fans you can find because the hood latch bracket prevents one large fan.

The fans are wired so that when the compressor kicks in, the fans come on.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Can'tflip, at the Garlits show I will show you what I consider a great solution.
In a nutshell, Champion 3 row, twin pushers on a parallel-flow condenser.
I'll show you right down to the nuts and bolts on how to keep you and your engine cool while hitting all 300 traffic lights on International Blvd. At 3:00PM. In August....

Do those Champion 3 row radiators cool as well as the 2 row ones with the big tubes? They certainly pop up all over the place and I'm weighing them as an option. Ever co$t concious, I need something that will cool Mathilda well in this Sonoran Desert heat and not break my wallet. I'm looking at the GMB water pump, (120-1200P) for plenty of coolant flow also. We don't run A/C here, and I've a single pass condenser which, along w the old York compressor and factory air installed doubtless by the hoosier dealer in Indiana, where Mathilda first rolled onto the asphalt, I removed straight away just to un-clutter the engine compartment and under-dash. I might opt for an oil cooler and more rigorous tranny cooler eventually, but first I'll settle for a GOOD radiator. If the Champion ones do well enough for the dollar, then I'll get one.

 

[commando1]

Do those Champion 3 row radiators cool as well as the 2 row ones with the big tubes?

Sorry, I haven't a clue. But I have always run under the assumption that if 2 rows are good, three must be better.

 

[cantflip]

A continuing blog of my A/C conversion journey.

Basically, I started with a Champion 3 row. They say perfect fit but you have to modify the brackets to line up with properly with the mounting locations on the radiator support. Also, you will have to fabricae new mounts on the radiator for the shroud to fit properly.
View attachment 86492

Finally, the shroud will need trimming where the transmission lines connect to the radiator. How are you at TIG welding....

The condenser is a universal fit with dimensions closest to the OEM one.

You need two of the smallest pusher fans you can find because the hood latch bracket prevents one large fan.
View attachment 86491

The fans are wired so that when the compressor kicks in, the fans come on.

No TIG experience whatsoever... my friend who used to do all my important welding passed away a number of years ago, but I am sure I could find a shop somewhere around here. Thank for taking the time to educate me... now I have lots to think about... I'm not ordering anything until my credit cards cycle from the Carlisle journey... The balance on one bought all my gas, hotels, much of my shopping and paypaled the parts car... its going to suck to look at that one and watch the bank balance drop...

 

[Gerald Morris]

Sorry, I haven't a clue. But I have always run under the assumption that if 2 rows are good, three must be better.

Hmmm, consider the surface area exposed, cross sectional area and overall length of all the tubing. The Champion uses tubes at ~ .61" diameter, while the American Eagle and the Speed Cooling ones use 1" or if ordered, 1.25" tubes. Now a .61 inch tube will have a circumference of ~ 1.92", while a 1" has ~3.1416", which is MORE than 1.5x as much. Thus, only 2 rows are needed to actually obtain slightly greater surface area, assuming each row is approximately the same length. Details like the number of tubes per row now become significant. Also, rate of flow and overall volume, which is a product of cross sectional surface area and length comes into play. Again, greater tube diameter up to a point yields better results. I guess I'll have to do a few sums with what data I can get from each of the big producers and see who in theory makes the best radiator. I know this ancient copper and stamped steel thing in Mathilda, which has a mere 22" core width works well with this neutered 383 we're running, has kept her rock steady at 190 F until I poured some powdered copper + acrylic stop leak gunk in. Now its holding at ~210, which I don't like. If this resulted just from more efficient combustion, that would be one thing, but a gunked up cooling system means time to get new parts = spend $$$$. The torture never stops, but it IS loving torture anyway....

 

[cantflip]

Hmmm, consider the surface area exposed, cross sectional area and overall length of all the tubing. The Champion uses tubes at ~ .61" diameter, while the American Eagle and the Speed Cooling ones use 1" or if ordered, 1.25" tubes. Now a .61 inch tube will have a circumference of ~ 1.92", while a 1" has ~3.1416", which is MORE than 1.5x as much. Thus, only 2 rows are needed to actually obtain slightly greater surface area, assuming each row is approximately the same length. Details like the number of tubes per row now become significant. Also, rate of flow and overall volume, which is a product of cross sectional surface area and length comes into play. Again, greater tube diameter up to a point yields better results. I guess I'll have to do a few sums with what data I can get from each of the big producers and see who in theory makes the best radiator. I know this ancient copper and stamped steel thing in Mathilda, which has a mere 22" core width works well with this neutered 383 we're running, has kept her rock steady at 190 F until I poured some powdered copper + acrylic stop leak gunk in. Now its holding at ~210, which I don't like. If this resulted just from more efficient combustion, that would be one thing, but a gunked up cooling system means time to get new parts = spend $$$$. The torture never stops, but it IS loving torture anyway....

Good... You do the math and let me know... I am not the one. I suspect your results will come back very similar on the aftermarket 2 vs. 3 row and both will do better than stock, but would be very interested if you find an advantage. Which brings us to quality of construction and fit... I doubt any of these has been produced with my Formals in mind.

Has anyone had one that bolted right in on a 74-78 Formal Imperial or NYB? In the end, unless someone here gives me a compelling reason to go with or avoid a particular company... It will come down to the service they provide during my phone calls. I am appreciative of the information in this thread, Stan has a good setup, but I don't believe I need to match brands as much as intent. It also occurs to me that it may be in my best interest to discuss with some of these companies them welding on additional brackets, but I don't know how realistic that thought is.

As to pusher fans... I am going to give this some thought and check pricing. Many moons ago I had a fairly large variety of fans scavenged from junkers, I found the aftermarket el cheapos didn't do what I hoped they would in many cases... I will start a new thread once I start purchasing.

 

[commando1]

Has anyone had one that bolted right in on a 74-78 Formal Imperial or NYB? In the end, unless someone here gives me a compelling reason to go with or avoid a particular company...

My decision to go with an aluminum aftermarket was done after much hand-wringing and discussing it with input from other members. Lots of controversy but I'm glad I went this route.

After deciding to go this route, I researched a lot of aftermarket aluminum radiator out there and NONE of them had the all the correct mounting brackets for the radiator itself nor the shroud. The Champ came closest. Don't believe anybody if they tell you theirs is 100% pnp. B.S.

The important items such as the hose inlet and outlet locations and the tranny line locations were dead on and that's what was important to me.

Why didn't I go with a bolt in Spectra? My close friend, a manager at AZ, told me that about a ⅓ came back because they cracked. Including his own. He finally went with Champ himself.

 

[cantflip]

The important items such as the hose inlet and outlet locations and the tranny line locations were dead on and that's what was important to me.

As usual, you nailed the most critical details... I suppose you can understand my own dilemma trying to research and figure out the investment so I can do it only once as well.

I have an ugly work schedule for the next several weeks, which will delay me doing this right now. At least the OT will help restore my bank balance a little before this next spending spree.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Good... You do the math and let me know... I am not the one. I suspect your results will come back very similar on the aftermarket 2 vs. 3 row and both will do better than stock, but would be very interested if you find an advantage. Which brings us to quality of construction and fit... I doubt any of these has been produced with my Formals in mind.

Has anyone had one that bolted right in on a 74-78 Formal Imperial or NYB? In the end, unless someone here gives me a compelling reason to go with or avoid a particular company... It will come down to the service they provide during my phone calls. I am appreciative of the information in this thread, Stan has a good setup, but I don't believe I need to match brands as much as intent. It also occurs to me that it may be in my best interest to discuss with some of these companies them welding on additional brackets, but I don't know how realistic that thought is.

As to pusher fans... I am going to give this some thought and check pricing. Many moons ago I had a fairly large variety of fans scavenged from junkers, I found the aftermarket el cheapos didn't do what I hoped they would in many cases... I will start a new thread once I start purchasing.

Right on! I ALSO am taking the Pragmatic Engineering Approach, and actually LOOKING AT THE EXISTING SYSTEM! My radiator # is 2524984, which is not surprisingly a 1965 job, with 3 rows. A 3 row aluminum job probably will do very well here IFF I can get one at 22" with the 3.5" tanks. I know the 2 row shops make good 22" cored stuff. The existing mounting and aperture size both constrain what I can pop in there.