Geraldine's engine and trans are out..... need info on 300l 413 cam....

[G3KKO]

Hey everybody!

Been a moment since posting.... pulled out Geraldine's engine and trans.....heads will be sent off to get hardened valve seats. Block may be disassembled and cleaned up/rebuilt. I need information about the cam that 300Ls used..... I want to upgrade the stock 1965 NewYorker 413 cam to that.....will also be getting headers and dual exhaust. Are the intakes and crabs different also...or not?
Thankyou for all info and direction!

Cheers!
Ben

 

[65 500]

The first picture is from the '65 parts book, the second picture is from the '65 Polara service manual(I don't have a '65 Chrysler service manual handy), but I would say that the cam specs that you are looking for are the same as the 426 wedge. I wasn't able to find any specs on lift for the cam, but unless your planning on having a cam custom ground you're only going to get close anyway.
I would say that the intakes are the same, and the carbs are close enough. You can check the parts book here though. A 300 is a "C2".
MyMopar - Mopar Forums & Information - Parts & Accessories Books

 

[Davea Lux]

Hey everybody!

Been a moment since posting.... pulled out Geraldine's engine and trans.....heads will be sent off to get hardened valve seats. Block may be disassembled and cleaned up/rebuilt. I need information about the cam that 300Ls used..... I want to upgrade the stock 1965 NewYorker 413 cam to that.....will also be getting headers and dual exhaust. Are the intakes and crabs different also...or not?
Thankyou for all info and direction!

Cheers!
Ben

The 413 high performance engine in the 300 series with dual carbs is a solid lifter cam. .444 intake lift, .450 exhaust lift. The cross ram setup was discontinued in 1965, but if memory serves me correctly the 300L still retained the solid lifter cam.

The solid lifter cam was a major pain in the butt on the 413 cross ram cars because the valve lash had to be adjusted often to keep the engine in tune. The cross ram setup had to be removed to perform the valve adjustment. Many police departments removed the cross ram setup altogether from their cruisers (same engine) to facilitate maintainence and replaced the rams with either an in line dual quad setup or a single carb.

There is a modern "purple" camshaft that does .450 lift intake and .458 lift exhaust with hydraulic lifters. Duration on this shaft is 268 intake and 284 exhaust which is somewhat more radical than the factory 300 HP cam.

Dave

 

[CBODY67]

For 1965, the only 413 in the 300-L was the 360 horsepower version of the 413. The 340 horse cam that was standard in the New Yorker had the 256/260 cam and the 360 horse motor had a 260/268 degree cam (advertised duration). Lift was about .440 or there-abouts, with the 340 horse cam being more like .425" lift, same as the 383/325 motor (standard in the normal 300s that year). The 340 horse motor was single exhaust and the 360 horse motor had factory dual exhausts, even on the Imperial that year.

So, all of the 2x4bbl Cross-Ram 413s stopped with the end of the '64 model year 300 Letter Car production.

The later 440/375 motor had a little "more" cam, in both duration and lift, so that would be an upgrade in that respect. And it probably had a little bigger Carter AFB/AVS on it, too. Plus the better exhaust manifolds! The first "Purple Shaft" cam was the 426 street HEMI cam, which was 284/284 duration, ahead of the later Mopar Perf line of "Purple Shaft" cams (in more recent years).

Being that you have a real 300 Letter car, staying with factory equipment can help maintain/preserve the car's ultimate value. Although it was the last in the line of the original "Letter Cars" and without the prior 300 Letter Car signature Chrysler Ram-Tuned Cross Ram 2x4bbl induction system, it's still what it is.

CBODY67

 

[Davea Lux]

Willis is correct. The 360hp 413 was only offered with the hydraulic cam in 1965. Depending on how stock you want to keep your car, you could use the 360 horse cam. Since you are also going to install headers, you might also consider the '70 440 6bbl cam for street use. That will give you enough vacuum to run the brake booster and accessories and liven up the engine significantly.

Dave

 

[CBODY67]

The 440+6 cam is the same specs as the 440/375 cam. The difference is the 440+6 cam has "low taper" on the cam lobes to better tolerate the stronger spring pressure used on the 440+6 valve train. That also requires different hydraulic lifters than the "normal taper" cams do. "Matched set", so to speak. I saw that in the old Direct Connection Race Manual.

CBODY67

 

[Davea Lux]

The 440+6 cam is the same specs as the 440/375 cam. The difference is the 440+6 cam has "low taper" on the cam lobes to better tolerate the stronger spring pressure used on the 440+6 valve train. That also requires different hydraulic lifters than the "normal taper" cams do. "Matched set", so to speak. I saw that in the old Direct Connection Race Manual.

CBODY67

The 6BBL cam and lifters were designed for the hemi type valve springs which should also be installed for best performance. I would also suggest some of the more modern light weight alloy push rods to complete the upgrade.

Dave

 

[CBODY67]

Might also consider some roller-tip rocker arms, of full roller rocker arms, IF they can fit the budget.

CBODY67

 

[G3KKO]

TY guys for all the info!
Really she is just going to be a cruiser.....figured while the engine is out and such... I would do an "upgrade". That being said...this is on a budget....not going racing. lol.
So.....the 440/375 cam sounds best....and possible roller rocker arms for efficiency.
another query..... the 413 ran very strong prior to removal....the heads are being sent out for hardened valve seats......should I rebuild the block? ......I am thinking it would be a good idea....
again....all answers and advice are MUCH appreciated!!!!

Cheers!
Ben

 

[Davea Lux]

TY guys for all the info!
Really she is just going to be a cruiser.....figured while the engine is out and such... I would do an "upgrade". That being said...this is on a budget....not going racing. lol.
So.....the 440/375 cam sounds best....and possible roller rocker arms for efficiency.
another query..... the 413 ran very strong prior to removal....the heads are being sent out for hardened valve seats......should I rebuild the block? ......I am thinking it would be a good idea....
again....all answers and advice are MUCH appreciated!!!!

Cheers!
Ben

If in doubt, it is nearly always better to rebuild than risk scattering the engine. If yours is approaching 100k rebuild it.
If this is a relatively low mileage engine, a lot will depend on what you find when you inspect the lower end. Start by removing the pan and plasti-gauging the rod and main bearings, look for line gouges and any exposed copper on the bearings. If you find copper, gouges or excessive clearance the engine needs a rebuild. Next, inspect the cylinder bores for pitting or line tracks, if you find any of that, rebuild it.
Inspect the engine for sludge deposits, that is a good indicator of poor maintainence.

If you decide to install the engine without a rebuild, be sure to replace the timing gears with metal, not plastic gears. If you are planning to put you foot into it, use a double roller chain and gears. It would also be a good idea to replace the cam bearings so that they will mate to the new camshaft. If you are going to replace the camshaft with the Magnum unit, replace the valve springs with the appropriate units that are designed for the Magnum cam. The aftermarket lightweight push rods are also a good investment. The roller type rockers are nice to have but are expensive and will not gain you all that much in the way of horsepower. I would suggest upgrading to electronic ignition as money better spent.

Dave

 

[fury fan]

Glad to see the 413hp cam was clarified, IIRC that cam is the same as the long-ram cars of years earlier but with different installed CL, the crossram cars require very specific valve timing. I believe they installed the cam differently in the L, but I've never researched that, and I'm willing to be shown to be wrong. Also, IIRC only the shortram cars got the solid-lifter cam.

As for cams, might as well consider a more modern grind, no need to stay with something from 50 years ago. Yes, the factory stuff was decent, but there are more options now. I would recommend the Lunati Voodoo 60302 (although it's a different part# number now) but you can get a whole bunch of other opinions on that can of worms of camshafts.

Don't rebuild an engine just for the sake of doing it. If an engine is running well and has 10 psi of oil pressure (hot) per 1000rpm it's not going to 'scatter'. Keep in mind that's an old mechanics rule, and is based on crankshaft psi like the Brand-X engines -- our OP is measured above the camshaft, after a few more pressure drops have occurred, so our crank pressure is higher than our gauge shows. If you have 50psi (hot) at above idle you'll be fine for a cruiser.

If you have some blowby in the rings, that may get worse with better-sealing heads, so you might find yourself digging back in to do a dingle-ball hone-and-ring job. But I believe you will have a hard time finding pistons and/or rings for a 413, they are an odd bore size that doesn't cross to other car manufacturers. If you do find pistons, they'll likely be low-compression versions. If you get custom-made pistons for better CR, well, at the end of the day you've spent a lot of money and still have a 413, where the only benefit is you can tell other people you have a 413, which sounds mysterious, some of them might think you have a Beach Boys Max Wedge. Better to consider other engine options at that point? Although in a 65 C-body you have that driverside engine mount to deal with, and not all blocks fit nicely with it. Don't get me wrong - I liked the 413 that was in my 300L, it was torquey and had great throttle response, far better than the 452-headed 400 that replaced it, but I would never drop big money into a 413 if my goal was to get my money's worth (and it usually is).

 

[hotdog647]

Though I'm not always a purist, don't dismiss the 'stock' spec 413. The extra HP and torque come at higher rpms and usually require a higher number (3.23 or 3.55) rear end to get there. the stock 413s have plenty of get up and go for most cruising applications. Remember you are driving a heavy car. In some of my 413s I run a RV cam to get low end grunt and street running.