1969 Dodge Daytona with a 305" Small block Mopar ALMOST made history
- Thread starter Turboomni
- Start date
live and learn... thanks.
anyway, I went back but still sorta missed exactly the "why" go with a 305 cu. in. ? They (Keith Black) "destroked" a 340 used in another racing circuit .. but why not leave it a 340?
I heard piece say a Bill France "edict" called for restrictor plates OR 305's in winged cars .. where did he get "305" from -- picked out the air?
also gotta earn more about the winged car "hating" going on 1969-1970 .. Baker breaks 200 mph lap at Talladega for first time -- were they (winged Mopars) winning everything (superspeedways at least) in sight otherwise at the time?
And what were the "aerowars" between the Blue Oval guys and Ma Mopar? Mopar had them, and Ford didnt and then it became a corporate pissing content that France "solved" by hamstringing the Mopars?
anyway, I went back but still sorta missed exactly the "why" go with a 305 cu. in. ? They (Keith Black) "destroked" a 340 used in another racing circuit .. but why not leave it a 340?
I heard piece say a Bill France "edict" called for restrictor plates OR 305's in winged cars .. where did he get "305" from -- picked out the air?
also gotta earn more about the winged car "hating" going on 1969-1970 .. Baker breaks 200 mph lap at Talladega for first time -- were they (winged Mopars) winning everything (superspeedways at least) in sight otherwise at the time?
And what were the "aerowars" between the Blue Oval guys and Ma Mopar? Mopar had them, and Ford didnt and then it became a corporate pissing content that France "solved" by hamstringing the Mopars?
Nerd alert ... i hate not knowing stuff.
But I may have guessed right only because LATER (25 years) I was a "Big 3" exec and learned how those cats used to think about their cross-town rivals.
Maybe the following is true ... its sure seems to make sense to me. BTW, I NEVER heard of a "King Cobra" until today.
source: The Famous Aero Wars and The Lost Aero War Car
"It’s 1970, and NASCAR has turned into a war-zone.
After 2 consecutive championships with David Person, Ford was on the top of the world. That is, until Chrysler dreamed up the “Winged Warriors” in late 1969, making a debut at Talladega.
Dodge and Plymouth dominated the 1970 Season with the Superbird and Charger Daytona, with Bobby Issac winning the championship.
Meanwhile, Ford and Chrysler were taking a loss in the showroom, for differing reasons. Chrysler was taking a loss because of the amount of money put into the Winged cars and how few were being sold. Ford was taking a loss because they were losing on the racetrack.
Every week it seemed a Chrysler product was standing in victory lane. The cars looked crazy, and the on track products were migrating away from what they looked like in the showroom.
NASCAR had to do something."
"Yes, there is a Daytona in that picture, let me elaborate.
For the 1971 Season, NASCAR made a new rule that, in a nutshell, said that all Winged Cars had to have an engine size reduction. So the Dodge Daytona, Plymouth Superbird, Mercury Spoiler II and the Ford Torino Talladega were not allowed to run anything over a 305ci.
The grid for the 1971 Daytona 500 looked entirely different than the year before! Richard Brooks was the only competitor in a Winged Car. He led laps early but was taken out in an accident later.
Everyone else was in 2nd Gen Chargers and Roadrunners, Monte Carlos, Pontiac LeMans, and even some Chevelles! Everyone was trying to find what worked best for the season ahead."
It turned out to be Plymouth, with Richard Petty taking the championship that year."
"This car, was what Ford had developed to take down Chrysler, but with the new rules, they scrapped the project.
The cars sat in a Ford showroom in Charlotte, North Carolina for almost a year, until Bud Moore, a NASCAR team owner, came in to pick up a Mustang, and saw the only 2 King Cobras in existence, asked how much they were, and the dealership said “Take them.”
Thus, both of these cars have surfaced and have been sold in the last 5 years. Each for over $500,000 (USD)."
But I may have guessed right only because LATER (25 years) I was a "Big 3" exec and learned how those cats used to think about their cross-town rivals.
Maybe the following is true ... its sure seems to make sense to me. BTW, I NEVER heard of a "King Cobra" until today.
source: The Famous Aero Wars and The Lost Aero War Car
"It’s 1970, and NASCAR has turned into a war-zone.
After 2 consecutive championships with David Person, Ford was on the top of the world. That is, until Chrysler dreamed up the “Winged Warriors” in late 1969, making a debut at Talladega.
Dodge and Plymouth dominated the 1970 Season with the Superbird and Charger Daytona, with Bobby Issac winning the championship.
Meanwhile, Ford and Chrysler were taking a loss in the showroom, for differing reasons. Chrysler was taking a loss because of the amount of money put into the Winged cars and how few were being sold. Ford was taking a loss because they were losing on the racetrack.
Every week it seemed a Chrysler product was standing in victory lane. The cars looked crazy, and the on track products were migrating away from what they looked like in the showroom.
NASCAR had to do something."
"Yes, there is a Daytona in that picture, let me elaborate.
For the 1971 Season, NASCAR made a new rule that, in a nutshell, said that all Winged Cars had to have an engine size reduction. So the Dodge Daytona, Plymouth Superbird, Mercury Spoiler II and the Ford Torino Talladega were not allowed to run anything over a 305ci.
The grid for the 1971 Daytona 500 looked entirely different than the year before! Richard Brooks was the only competitor in a Winged Car. He led laps early but was taken out in an accident later.
Everyone else was in 2nd Gen Chargers and Roadrunners, Monte Carlos, Pontiac LeMans, and even some Chevelles! Everyone was trying to find what worked best for the season ahead."
It turned out to be Plymouth, with Richard Petty taking the championship that year."
"This car, was what Ford had developed to take down Chrysler, but with the new rules, they scrapped the project.
The cars sat in a Ford showroom in Charlotte, North Carolina for almost a year, until Bud Moore, a NASCAR team owner, came in to pick up a Mustang, and saw the only 2 King Cobras in existence, asked how much they were, and the dealership said “Take them.”
Thus, both of these cars have surfaced and have been sold in the last 5 years. Each for over $500,000 (USD)."
patrick66
Old Man with a Hat
I had the opportunity to drive a Talledega at Texas Motor Speedway several years ago...not around the track, unfortunately, but perhaps a quarter of a mile. At about 15 mph! A Mopar buddy of mine picked the car up at the event from a Texas seller. IIRC, it was the "buy of the century" and he couldn't pass it up. That's the only one I've seen in the flesh. Sweet old Ford!
A King Cobra would be the ultimate Ford score, IMO.
A King Cobra would be the ultimate Ford score, IMO.
man .. i never heard of Ford "aero" cars from the 1970 "wars".
King Cobra only two exist ..ok i give myself a pass on those. Never heard of them, and one guy in NC snarfed them up and they disappeared.
But a Torino "Talladega" or Merc "Spoiler II" also never came to my attention. I likely would NOT have bought one as a collector even then as I have no memory of them. Nice tho.
Superbird (and Daytona) was a different story. I fell in love in fall of 1970 with a Superbird (as a pre-teen in the showroom of Jim Clark Chrysler Plymouth, Topeka Blvd at 21st, Topeka KS) with my Dad -- baddest ride I ever saw I thought.
We "fishtailed" outta the dealership on a test drive .. from the backseat I thought it was a rocket headed for the moon. My Dad was giddy like a teenage girl at a Beatles concert (he was 36 in 1970).
We didnt get it .. my recollection he was thinking hard about that car -- he probably wasn't seriously gonna do it .. family man, three young kids at home .. I cant see my mother going along with that deal at all.
source: https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2017/10/03/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1969-ford-torino-talladega-2
1969 Torino Talladega
1969 Merc Cyclone Spoiler II, with the Dan Gurney package
Source: 1969 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler II Gurney Special | S216 | Houston 2013 | Mecum Auctions
King Cobra only two exist ..ok i give myself a pass on those. Never heard of them, and one guy in NC snarfed them up and they disappeared.
But a Torino "Talladega" or Merc "Spoiler II" also never came to my attention. I likely would NOT have bought one as a collector even then as I have no memory of them. Nice tho.
Superbird (and Daytona) was a different story. I fell in love in fall of 1970 with a Superbird (as a pre-teen in the showroom of Jim Clark Chrysler Plymouth, Topeka Blvd at 21st, Topeka KS) with my Dad -- baddest ride I ever saw I thought.
We "fishtailed" outta the dealership on a test drive .. from the backseat I thought it was a rocket headed for the moon. My Dad was giddy like a teenage girl at a Beatles concert (he was 36 in 1970).
We didnt get it .. my recollection he was thinking hard about that car -- he probably wasn't seriously gonna do it .. family man, three young kids at home .. I cant see my mother going along with that deal at all.
source: https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2017/10/03/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1969-ford-torino-talladega-2
1969 Torino Talladega
1969 Merc Cyclone Spoiler II, with the Dan Gurney package
Source: 1969 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler II Gurney Special | S216 | Houston 2013 | Mecum Auctions
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patrick66
Old Man with a Hat
A buddy of mine had a 1968 Torino GT with the 390 automatic, with air and bench seat. Odd combo, overall. His Dad worked for Ford as an exec back in the Sixties, and ordered the car to his spec. Supposedly, the various option combo on that car in its totality, was unavailable to the Ford buying public. It was white with blue interior and black stripes, with the Ford Rallyes with GT caps. Spent many a mile in that Torino! It was a very nice-driving and handling car. A Mustang with bigger balls and better looks.
1970 Mercury Cyclone "Spoiler II" - 429 SCJ, alleged only ONE of ONE left, stablemate of the King Cobra.
source: 1970 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler II | Review | SuperCars.net
"In and around in 1970, Ford was experimenting with new aerodynamic bodies for the Cylone similar to designs used on their King Cobra.
These developments were no doubt motivated by the wing-warrior Mopars that were most unusual automobiles in NASCAR. Both the Plymouth Superbird and Dodge Daytona had a new nose and rear wing to achieve better drag coefficients and stability on the track.
What Ford stylists did,was attach an extended nose to their already potent Cyclone Spoiler II package.
To be released in 1970, the updated car was going to be built in 519 road-going units to comply with NASCAR certification.
However, the program was cancelled, and what few cars made it into public hands featured anything from the 290hp 351 Windsor engine to the potent 429 Super Cobra Jet.
Until recently, there was much speculation about the existence any original of any long nose Spoiler IIs.
After an original specimen showed up at the Ford’s 100th anniversary celebration, accompanied by a bill of sale, many journalists had to backtrack after calling the series an urban myth."
source: 1970 Mercury Cyclone Spoiler II | Review | SuperCars.net
"In and around in 1970, Ford was experimenting with new aerodynamic bodies for the Cylone similar to designs used on their King Cobra.
These developments were no doubt motivated by the wing-warrior Mopars that were most unusual automobiles in NASCAR. Both the Plymouth Superbird and Dodge Daytona had a new nose and rear wing to achieve better drag coefficients and stability on the track.
What Ford stylists did,was attach an extended nose to their already potent Cyclone Spoiler II package.
To be released in 1970, the updated car was going to be built in 519 road-going units to comply with NASCAR certification.
However, the program was cancelled, and what few cars made it into public hands featured anything from the 290hp 351 Windsor engine to the potent 429 Super Cobra Jet.
Until recently, there was much speculation about the existence any original of any long nose Spoiler IIs.
After an original specimen showed up at the Ford’s 100th anniversary celebration, accompanied by a bill of sale, many journalists had to backtrack after calling the series an urban myth."
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