Ammeter and electric New Yorker 1967

Jacky Dude

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Bavaria Germany
Hello to all,

my 1967 New Yorker bring me trouble again and I don't know the next way to do.

I had an electric problem with the battery.

Before I restore the car, I did not test the alternator and components to laod the battery.

I bought a new alternator and regulator, the starter relay, too.

I drived a few miles to test the car and the battery was after a few days empty.

I tested the alternator and there was no loading to the battery.

After changing the alternator and the regulator, there was the same problem.

I removed the instrument panel to take a look to the bulbs and the electric, the black and the red wire, for loading the battery, were on the same pin at the ammeter. After a correct position and testing all bulbs and contacts I replaced the instrument panel and all the lights, flasher and ammeter works perfect.

I started the engine to test the alternator and I had 13,6 V on the battery, I was very happy ;-)

After 5 minutes, I started the engine to drive around with my wife to by something, but there was a little rattle in the instrument panel. I opened the hood and there was little smoke on the FLD pin ( Alternator regulator)

I stopped the engine suddenly and after turning the key to start the engine again, the completly car is dead.... No lights, flascher or anything, simple dead.

The battery is on 13,2 V and I worked in the New Yorker the battery from my pickup. The same, the car is dead.

All fuses are perfekt, but where I have to start again?

Is there a proplem with the ammeter? An overload by a defect voltage limiter? What's about the kondensator on the voltage limiter? Is this the same like in the distributor?

Where I get an original and tested ammeter with tested voltage limiter and kondensator?

Is there anywhere a master fusion? Or is the problem on the ignition switch?

Please let me know your experience and brain storming.



Regards from Bavaria Germany

Markus
 
Hello to all,

my 1967 New Yorker bring me trouble again and I don't know the next way to do.

I had an electric problem with the battery.

Before I restore the car, I did not test the alternator and components to laod the battery.

I bought a new alternator and regulator, the starter relay, too.

I drived a few miles to test the car and the battery was after a few days empty.

I tested the alternator and there was no loading to the battery.

After changing the alternator and the regulator, there was the same problem.

I removed the instrument panel to take a look to the bulbs and the electric, the black and the red wire, for loading the battery, were on the same pin at the ammeter. After a correct position and testing all bulbs and contacts I replaced the instrument panel and all the lights, flasher and ammeter works perfect.

I started the engine to test the alternator and I had 13,6 V on the battery, I was very happy ;-)

After 5 minutes, I started the engine to drive around with my wife to by something, but there was a little rattle in the instrument panel. I opened the hood and there was little smoke on the FLD pin ( Alternator regulator)

It sounds like you have a bad fusible link. Look at the positive cable on the battery. There should be a small wire coming off of this terminal that is routed back to the block connector on the firewall. Usually there will be a blue tab on this wire close to the firewall. This is a fused link and they sometimes burn out, the wire will usually fall apart at the blue tab when this happens or there will be a burned spot on the wire. This is supposed to protect the wiring harness in the case of a major short so that the harness does not burn up, but sometimes the fusible link gets corroded and fails from high resistance.

Dave

I stopped the engine suddenly and after turning the key to start the engine again, the completly car is dead.... No lights, flascher or anything, simple dead.

The battery is on 13,2 V and I worked in the New Yorker the battery from my pickup. The same, the car is dead.

All fuses are perfekt, but where I have to start again?

Is there a proplem with the ammeter? An overload by a defect voltage limiter? What's about the kondensator on the voltage limiter? Is this the same like in the distributor?

Where I get an original and tested ammeter with tested voltage limiter and kondensator?

Is there anywhere a master fusion? Or is the problem on the ignition switch?

Please let me know your experience and brain storming.



Regards from Bavaria Germany

Markus
 
Markus,
You are saying that the smoke was coming from the alternator when you raised the hood after the short drive with your wife? Check to make sure that the wires on the back of the alternator are not shorted together and that the connections are tight and free of corrosion.

Additional testing:

You need to get a test light to start checking for power. Hook it to the neg side of the battery then systematically test the power going inside the car to the dash.
  1. negative terminal to starter relay
  2. negative terminal to fusible link
  3. Negative terminal to the bulkhead connector (take it apart and inspect the condition of connector for heat[melting] and corrosion - if it is okay before reassembly clean and coat it with De-Oxit)
Once you have tested through the bulkhead connector find a good ground inside.
  1. Test for power on the inside of the bulkhead.
  2. Test for power on the red cable at the back of the amp gauge.
  3. Test for power on the black wire of the amp gauge.
If you've got power at both sides of the amp gauge follow your wiring diagram to the next place that power goes and check there. Once you find a lose of power you need to back up and check the wiring. Always be looking for signs of heat and corrosion on the wires and connections.

Don't jump around! Be very systematic in following the power.
 

I thing your immediate problem is probably a bad fusible link. Look for the blue tab on the small wire coming off the positive terminal of the battery. It should be close to the bulkhead connector or the starter relay. These are designed to burn out if there is a major short someplace to save the wiring harness. They also sometimes fail due to corrosion and high resistance. There should never be smoke coming from any terminal on the alternator. Be sure the connector to the field on the alternator is clean and free from corrosion. As this was a new unit you might have just observed the anti corrosion protection on the terminal evaporating as the unit was under load. The test procedure above by livefortheking is a good place to go if the fusible link is intact.

Dave
 
Hello Markus, Do you have any more pics of your car...... I think I love it! Thanks, Dave
 
markus - this is actually a blessing that your car did not run after this.

please go pull power from it until this is corrected so as to not have fire.

the ammeter is a place of potential failure. hearing that both red and black were on the same post means someone has already been in here dorking around. there was probably a previous issue.

study the MAD mod, the nacho bypass, and also our own traintech55 had his own approach.

You should also order 14ga and 16ga fusible links and change those.

i would not be surprised if your ALT is OK and just some wires are burnt out.


try not to die -

- saylor
 
Thank you all for the answers.
Iwill start tomorrow morning from the battery to the firewall.
I think, the problem is the ammeter, it doesn't work and anyone was in, to do something whatever.
If I put a 5w bulb between the black and red ammeter posts, it should be work.
I will tell you in the next days my work.
@ Dave, yes I have some pictures from the complete restoring but not a lot of the finish.

Regards from the Bavarian hop culture country
 
I'm back again with a lot of knowledge about my car.
The electric is back and all bulbs and lights works perfect, but the Alternator doesn't work again.
The alternator is not defect!
The Problem is the ammeter. The whole electric works over the ammeter (the red wire goes in the ammeter and the black wire goes to the fuse box and other parts) and the ammeter is 100% defect. I ordered a NOS ammeter in USA for a lot of money...but if it's work, I will be happy.
I fastened an extern wire at the red and black pin on the ammeter, with a 30A fuse between and the electric was back.
Is there any way to load the electric from the alternator to the battery? The alternator has no loading control, it works over the extern control.
I hope you understand my bad language ;-)
Markus
 
I'm back again with a lot of knowledge about my car.
The electric is back and all bulbs and lights works perfect, but the Alternator doesn't work again.
The alternator is not defect!
The Problem is the ammeter. The whole electric works over the ammeter (the red wire goes in the ammeter and the black wire goes to the fuse box and other parts) and the ammeter is 100% defect. I ordered a NOS ammeter in USA for a lot of money...but if it's work, I will be happy.
I fastened an extern wire at the red and black pin on the ammeter, with a 30A fuse between and the electric was back.
Is there any way to load the electric from the alternator to the battery? The alternator has no loading control, it works over the extern control.
I hope you understand my bad language ;-)
Markus
I would bypass the ammeter and be done with it.

Someone already did that by connecting the red and black wires to one post. There's no problem with doing it that way. It's the same as connecting a wire between the terminals, as you have done.

If I understand your question, what you want to do is referred to as the "MAD" modification. It's pretty easy to do. You run a #10 wire from the alternator to the starter relay. You have to use a #14 fusible link in series with the #10 wire. This eliminates running all the current through the firewall connections and through the ammeter. The ammeter becomes kind of useless because of this. I always say that it is good to install a voltmeter to monitor the system.

But I'm also thinking your question is if you want to check the alternator and regulator by bypassing the regulator. You can do that pretty easily, but it's just to check the operation and you can't run the car for very long like this.

This works only if the car still has alternator using one field connection and correct regulator. Disconnect the field wire. That's the wire that clips on. Hook up a voltmeter to the battery. Start the car. I like to turn on the headlights to help keep the voltage down. Connect a jumper wire between the field connection on the alternator and the positive post on the battery. The voltage shown at the battery should show at least 14 volts or more. If it does, the voltage regulator is bad. If it doesn't, the alternator is bad. As I said, don't run this any longer than it takes to check the voltage.

That is the same test that the FSM shows except that most of us don't have an adjustable carbon pile resistor to load the battery. That is why I turn on the headlights.

Your English is a zillion times better than my German.
 
battery. Start the car. I like to turn on the headlights to help keep the voltage down. Connect a jumper wire between the field connection on the alternator and the positive post on the battery. The voltage shown at the battery should show at least 14 volts or more. If it does, the voltage regulator is bad. If it doesn't, the alternator is bad

Without headlights there are 6,4V and with headlights 25,4 V
 
If you have over 25 volts (which surprises me that it was that much) with the lights on, the alternator is good. I'm not sure why you would only have 6 volts with the lights off though... That makes no sense.

If all the wiring is good, and that means all the fusible links too, I would say that the regulator is bad. I know it's a new one, but they've been known to be bad right out of the box.
 
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