Charging issue

[Knebel]

My fury has recently developed a charging issue. At idle which is 850 in park, the ammeter is barely in the middle, if i put it in drive at about 800rpm, it actually shows a discharge. At higher rpm, 1000 or so, the ammeter goes up to the first line on the charge side. This also seems to be an intermittend problem which dosent always show a discharge. When it does, the ammeter also does move rhytmically a 1/4 step down with the ign firing.

I measured a 1.78v drop between battery + and the blue fld wire on the regulator with the ign on and engine not running. I have read that the maximum is supposed to be around .2v.....

I have the wires as follows:

Starter relay to a 40amp fuse, then straight to the ammeter bypassing the bulkhead. The black wire to the ammeter also bypasses the bulkhead.

I have a pertronix and the ballast resistor bridged.

I have also opened up the bulkhead connector and used deoxit on the contacts, then put it back togeter with some dielectric grease. The connections didnt look too bad.
My ign switch feels very loose and i wondr if there is something wrong with that. Does anyone have any suggestions what connectors i have to check or if the voltage regulator or starter relay gave up? I need to figure this out quickly since its my daily driver.

 

[butchr66]

There's alot of variables you didn't mention. How is it with the wipers on? The heater blower on high/medium/low? Lights on and you press on the breaks?

 

[Knebel]

Any kind of load, domelight, blower, turn signal, headlights makes the ammeter twitch lower. Also stepping on the brakes makes it twich. When i turn the ign to on but dont start the motor, i see the gauge moving, the pointer is slightly under middle but moves maybe 1mm back and fort. Lights flicker too when at idle. They have always done that but i have never seen the ammeter in the "not charging" position at idle. It always hovered around the middle and when applying brakes it would twitch a little, same with the turn signals.

I thought about going to check out the grounds and the ign switch connector tomorrow

Ps: please forgive any typos, my tablet and my brain dont want to cooperate tonight for some weird reason

 

[68plymouth383]

You may have low output alternator. If your still running the mechanical voltage regulator I'd replace that first with a solid state one.

 

[Knebel]

I forgot to mention, the alternator is 1 year old and I have a solid state regulator. Its also not always doing this, kt seems like uts more pronounced now that its so hot here. And well, that huge voltage drop is of concern....

 

[commando1]

With symptons as you described, on my car I would simply install a new solid state VR.
Only then would I even begin to go through a troubleshooting procedure.

 

[Knebel]

Thanks commando, I will look where I can source one. I went through the connections again and cleaned all the bulkhead connectors to a shine. I also pulled off the connector on the ignition lock and tightened/cleaned/lubed them. Then I went and cleaned all the grounds i the engine bay. The ammeter is still pegging back and forth a little in rhythm of the cylinders firing but smooths out more the longer the engine runs, this time it stayed on the current flow side. I still have a 1.5v drop from battery to voltage reg. Have a 1v difference between the voltage reg terminals. With the engine idling cold at 700rpm I measure 13.75volt across the battery terminals so it is actually charging. I turned on the blowe and the lights and stepped on the brakes and the needle stays a little on the high side at least.
Now, is the ammeter supposed to twitch with loads applied and vary back and forth a bit with the engine running or is it supposed go be dead on?

 

[Knebel]

I just remembered something, my afr meter is on the ammeter connectio and i have seen the gauge throw an e9 code once or twice which is "insufficient voltage"

 

[Knebel]

Cleaned up the contacts in the fusebox. Now I have a 1.25 drop (instead 1.7) from battery to voltage regulator. I went through and measured some more. The blue "ign run wire" which comes from the ign key and goes on the ballast and the voltage regulator only has barely undrr 11 volts on it with the ign in run, engine off. The battery has about 12.6ish right now. This i could trace from the coil to the regulator through the bulkhead so far... isnt that supposed to be the battery voltage on the blue wire when the key is turned to "run"? Maybe that where i loose these 1.25v now and it seems to be behind the dash. Anyone has an idea?

 

[Knebel]

I have the new regulator installed now. With no load and idling in park i have 13.8 volts at the battery (shows 3/4 of the whole gauge, charging good). If i turn on the lights and the blower motor on high, i get up to 12.5volts at the battery (that shows somewhat under the middle of the ammeter) and 12.9 to 13 on the alternator terminal. If i leave the lights on and turn the blower off, the gauge is pretty much centered. It seems like the ammeter is a bit more steady now, but that could be my imagination.

I still have the same voltage loss of 1.25 to 1.5volts. I also cleaned out all the deposits from the ign switch. I get my battery voltage on the bulkhead inside and about .5v less on the ignition switch connector...

 

[Yatzee]

Ideally you would want 14.2 volts at the battery ( depending on the condition of the battery ) terminals using an Ohmmeter across the terminals. Take a reading with the engine stopped and one of the terminals removed from the battery. Take another reading with the terminals both on and engine stopped to determine if there is a draw on the battery when the car is at rest with the ignition off and doors closed. Now take a third reading with the engine running ( across the battery terminals ). If the battery is at full charge, both the output reading of the alternator and battery at rest will be the same. If the battery is low the alternator output will be higher. Now check the output right at the alternator stud and compare readings. If your alternator is putting out the voltage it's rated for, your problem is elsewhere and could be caused by corrosion within the wire itself. Newer upgraded charging methods take the output from the alternator directly to the battery + post or the starter + terminal (which are the same) but you probably employ an outboard voltage regulator which can be finicky at times especially if the sensing of the system voltage is wrong. This is not a new problem and many outboard regulators can not respond to the demands of the car fast enough as demonstrated by wavering amp and voltage gauge needles. Nothing really wrong, just the nature of old technology. I have a 3G alternator ( with internal electronic voltage regulator ) on my 383 and at 650 rpm output is a constant 14.2 volts with everything on but I do not put that kind of amperage through an ammeter, rather directly to the battery. The sensing is done at the ignition circuit. Short of " solution by substitution" I would consider a more modern charging system using a new updated, internally regulated alternator ( that looks exactly original ) an feeds the juice to the battery protecting the existing outdated wiring. Just my opinion because it works well for me on my Mopar and Fairlane. I am pleased with the fact that my headlights do not dim, my overall amperage and voltage do not waiver regardless of whats turned on and I have not put any wiring in a melt down situation.

 

[Knebel]

I still have an issue here, I started the car, and my ammeter shows a dead steady needle just above the middle position (normally at 1st stage to the right running 1500rpm). I drive off...same, steady needle just above, hit the breaks, needle twitches as always. Then all the sudden pegs to the right, stays a se ond and pegs back to the middle. I drove a bit, turned on the blinker and noticed that it was fairly dimm and flickering...

Pulled over and with the car running i wiggled the field wire on the alternator(i had forgotten to connect it in the past and thought it might have slipped off), that seemed to have done something because after that i saw the gauge movement im used to. Peging back and forth at idle around the middle and smooting out on the right side when rpms rise. That did it for a little bit and then it started funky again. Wiggled it again in a parking lot and it seemed to do the trick. I did measure 13.12 volts at idle across the battery poles with the ammeter showing a tad under the first line to the right. Thats a little low but at least its charging.
I have my afr gauge on the ign on circuit and it threw an e9 code which means low voltage and thats mainly how I could tell that something isnt right..

Would it help if i make a new green field wire from alternator to regulator with some heavier gauge wire maybe? Like you said, it should show me 14volgs charging...

 

[Knebel]

Alrigt, new bigger gauge field wire installed. Better already. Now to the charging...

I get at 1500rpm 14.5volt between the alternatir stud and the firewall.
I get at 1500rpm 13.5volt between - and + at the battery, starter relay and whatever is in the ammeters path coming back into the enginebay.

The wire from the alternator goes straight to the ammeter, no bulkhead connectors
involved, just some "crimp togethers" and "solder together" patchwork.

I get the alternator output all the way into the car, coming through the firewall and then its patched together to the ammeter, right there, the voltage is still good.

Coukd it be the ammeter causing this voltage loss? Should I do the mod to bypass it? Anything else which can cause a 1volt drop in the charging system?

 

[Knebel]

I have put in another ground wire from the alternator to the radiator support and this reduced my voltage loss from 005 to 002 volt. Thats already fantastic.

My charging system seems to work, alternator puts out 14volt and when the battery is at 12.6v it stops charging, battery voltage goes down to 11.99v and then the regulator kicks in with 13.5v to the battery.

Thats also good. Whats not good is that my ammeter seems to get stuck in the middle occasionally, what can I do about that? I really need some help here....