i know its easy but im lost

[t57f100]

i have a 65 plymouth fury 318 im trying too get a new double timing set on but for the life of me there is the 3 marks on the crank gear a for advance r for retarded and 0 for factory timing.when i put number 1 up they hollow zero on the crank gear is on the key way but there is another solid dot that lines up correctly with the cam at cam at six and crank at 12.the key way zero is over to the right about 2 o'clock.i have been told so many things about this i cant see straight does someone have a picture of what is correct on the 3 way crank gear.i have a pic of what i did let me know im dizzy over this.what is the correct mark the key way or the way i have it

 

[jct]

Looks what you did is correct

 

[CBODY67]

"Dot - Dot" is usually how things go. If you were doing the "advance"/"retard" deals, then those particular marks would take the place of the cam sprocket "dot" instead, I suspect.

As an enhancement, liberally lubricate the cam and crank sprockets, along with the chain and nose of the crankshaft, with oil (including gently pulling the cam sprocket away from the block so the backside friction surface of the sprocket can be lubed, too) for good initial lubrication.

You might also expect slightluy more cam chain noise, but that's normal for a double-roller chain. AND you can probably expect over 300K miles of use from it.

CBODY67

 

[Davea Lux]

You have the gear correctly installed if you are still running the stock camshaft. The advance/retard marks are for racing application camshafts.

Dave

 

[t57f100]

You have the gear correctly installed if you are still running the stock camshaft. The advance/retard marks are for racing application camshafts.

Dave

i have a slightly modified cam you cant even tell it was modified but its modified from stock cam GARY PAVLOVICH

 

[t57f100]

i have a slightly modified cam you cant even tell it was modified but its modified from stock cam GARY PAVLOVICH

here is his instructions but i must be understanding it wrong he wants me to use the zero on the key way not the solid dot this is where im lost or not understanding him i know its my fault
. The two marks should line up for BDC when the cam gear mark is 6 o-clock and the crank gear mark is 12-o-clock; rotate one full cam gear revolution and the piston should be at TDC with rotor pointing to #1 spark plug/cylinder and cam gear mark at 12-o-clock and crank gear mark at 12-o-clock...is this what you are experiencing? Was there an instruction sheet with the timing set telling you what each mark indicates - advance/straight up/retard?

 

[67Monaco]

Do you want it installed straight up, i.e. stock? Or do you want to advance it or retard it? If you want it straight up, you're done.

 

[Davea Lux]

here is his instructions but i must be understanding it wrong he wants me to use the zero on the key way not the solid dot this is where im lost or not understanding him i know its my fault
. The two marks should line up for BDC when the cam gear mark is 6 o-clock and the crank gear mark is 12-o-clock; rotate one full cam gear revolution and the piston should be at TDC with rotor pointing to #1 spark plug/cylinder and cam gear mark at 12-o-clock and crank gear mark at 12-o-clock...is this what you are experiencing? Was there an instruction sheet with the timing set telling you what each mark indicates - advance/straight up/retard?

Modified after market camshafts will often use different marks than the stock ones. Follow whatever the instructions that came with the camshaft says to do. Rotate the engine by hand to verify that there are no interference issues with the valves and pistons. Run a compression check to verify normal compression. If everything checks out, you should be good to go.

Dave

 

[67Monaco]

here. be done with it.

 

[t57f100]

Modified after market camshafts will often use different marks than the stock ones. Follow whatever the instructions that came with the camshaft says to do. Rotate the engine by hand to verify that there are no interference issues with the valves and pistons. Run a compression check to verify normal compression. If everything checks out, you should be good to go.

Dave

no stock cam modified slightly

 

[t57f100]

here. be done with it.

thats why i think im ok its zero on the key way for straight up and then align the dots.

 

[CBODY67]

Ahh HAAA! Another B/RB Chrysler engine item that's like a small block Chevy! This is something I learned from my machine shop operative, years ago.

I always thought that "dot- dot" was #1 firing, but it's really #6 firing. When both dots are at "Noon", then it's #1 firing. Some Chevy factory service manuals even show this along with the "dot-dot" orientation, but note that #6 firing is 180 degrees after #1 fires.

So your instructions state to do the orientation of "dot-dot", then rotate the engine to where it's "Noon - Noon" for the dots, then install the distributor with #1 firing normally.

If you tried to do the "noon - noon" orientation, you'd need a straight-edge to ensure the line between the dots went through the centers of the crank bolt and the camshaft Even doing it "dot-dot", you can have some issues if you're not careful.

On some cam grinds, you can get a bit more low-end torque with an advanced position. Similarly, a 440+6 has been observed to run better with a 4 degree retard with the stock cam, bleeding off a bit of low-end torque in exchange for a little stronger top end power. Normally, 4 degree is the limit of the advance or retard.

Now, is there some specific orientation for the oil pump/distributor drive gear in relation to the cam being at TDC?

When #1 (or #6) cylinder is at TDC, the keyway in the crank nose should be parallel to the #1 cylinder connecting rod . . . as it appears to be at "dot-dot".

See how that works.

CBODY67

 

[t57f100]

Ahh HAAA! Another B/RB Chrysler engine item that's like a small block Chevy! This is something I learned from my machine shop operative, years ago.

I always thought that "dot- dot" was #1 firing, but it's really #6 firing. When both dots are at "Noon", then it's #1 firing. Some Chevy factory service manuals even show this along with the "dot-dot" orientation, but note that #6 firing is 180 degrees after #1 fires.

So your instructions state to do the orientation of "dot-dot", then rotate the engine to where it's "Noon - Noon" for the dots, then install the distributor with #1 firing normally.

If you tried to do the "noon - noon" orientation, you'd need a straight-edge to ensure the line between the dots went through the centers of the crank bolt and the camshaft Even doing it "dot-dot", you can have some issues if you're not careful.

On some cam grinds, you can get a bit more low-end torque with an advanced position. Similarly, a 440+6 has been observed to run better with a 4 degree retard with the stock cam, bleeding off a bit of low-end torque in exchange for a little stronger top end power. Normally, 4 degree is the limit of the advance or retard.

Now, is there some specific orientation for the oil pump/distributor drive gear in relation to the cam being at TDC?

When #1 (or #6) cylinder is at TDC, the keyway in the crank nose should be parallel to the #1 cylinder connecting rod . . . as it appears to be at "dot-dot".

See how that works.

CBODY67

love the write up as you look at my pic you can see that what you write is where it is≥but why some people say the key way zero correct i am not understanding

 

[67Monaco]

thats why i think im ok its zero on the key way for straight up and then align the dots.

Yer good. Keyway is 0, and the dots line up.

If you want the cam advanced put the keyway at A and the A tooth up at noon, and the dot on the cam at 12 noon. Retarded cam would be the same thing but in the R keyway or whatever the indicator is.

 

[moper]

Was going to say - it's "both dots straight up", not "dot to dot"...

 

[CBODY67]

Crank keyway, as your pictures indicate, is when the #1 piston is at TDC. It is at this position TWICE in the 360 degrees of crank rotation it takes for ONE cycle. Same as "0" on the crank damper, except the timing mark is on the other side of the engine. The pre-1977 Chevy small block timing marks were on the driver's side of the engine, coinciding with the crank keyway location and position. Then, for several reasons, they started putting them behind the water pump (which is where it is on my '77 Camaro 305).

Perhaps this might explain the "0" you're talking about?

CBODY67

 

[t57f100]

would like to take the time here and say thank you to all the members here who took the time to help out with my dilemma.sometimes an extra set of eyes is better than one

 

[65sporty]

So you have it going back together now?

 

[t57f100]

So you have it going back together now?

yes it is im going to use the lubriplate #105 stuff put it back on and begin to get the block ready for paint before it get to cold then buy all new shiny bolts this winter and finish it up for spring install.thanks for asking.

 

[t57f100]

So you have it going back together now?

after i got this down the marks i decided to remove them to finishing painting my block again thank you guys