last question on needles and seats

413: changed the ballast resistor and the car started this morning (old resister I kept in glovebox looks thicker than the one I got from Advanced Auto). Keeping my fingers crossed that it keeps starting.

As for an electric car, I have my eye on a Chinese company called NIO. They're promoting battery swap tech. Like a gas station only it takes about 10 minutes to swap the battery and you don't own the battery. I envision battery swap stations replacing filling stations across the US. Paul

That's a lot of batteries to have on hand. I wonder how many batteries they would be charging at a time. And how much power service would be required?
The closest gas station to me runs 8 pumps and appears to serve about 50 cars an hour.
 
There are LOTS of good ideas out there as to how to handle the re-charging infrastructure. Whether it be more working charging stations, battery swaps, etc. Envision, though, how many hotels are in your region. Further understand IF we were in a total EV world. Then think of a charging station at each parking spot. Then how much it might cost to re-charge each vehicle to 90% charge, in addition to the room rate. Then scale that up for each of the lodging entities in your town/area. Then the county/province. Then the state. You get the picture. That's just ONE state.

Then consider the current possible number of plug-in terminal designs out there now. Unless those things get standardized in the future, more issues of people needing a charge and not having the capability of getting one. What if the NIO battery swap centers just closed 30 minutes ago for the night? The business model is still transitioning and evolving, no matter what.

In some respects, the EV issue is not unlike when automobiles were replacing (the prevalent at that time) horse or mule. Going "too far out" with no spare gas in the car could mean a big travel delay until more gas was obtained. With the locals joking about "that city-slicker", no doubt. When all Americans embraced the additional travel freedom which automobiles had, no more horses to use for travel propulsion. Different century, different "motor fuel".

In the mean time, gasoline and diesel will fuel the majority of travels in the world. Plus the new synthetic jet fuel for worldly air travel (is already at 50-50 fuel, to become 100% syn soon). Ford and GM are investing in new V-8 engine families for their future vehicles. Stellantis is already there with the new Hurricane turbo 6-cyl. Interesting that BP and EM have been investing in non-petro energy sources for at least one decade now. Being an "early-adopter" can have its higher costs and other issues, by observation. Several costs for "leading the way", too.

In the mean time, we've still got our vintage C-body cars to worry about!

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
I replaced the original distributor with an MSD distributor and the mechanic was able to eliminate the electronic control module.

changed the ballast resistor
Umm... No ballast resistor with the MSD distributor.

Check the manual if you don't believe me.... I seem to remember you having a "mechanic" install that... Obviously he didn't follow the directions, so who knows if it's wired correctly or not. That leads me to think that the ballast resistor is the cause of your hard starting issue... NOT because it's bad, just because it's there.

Any chance your resistor looks like this?

1698504200295.png


If so, and the MSD junk (yes, I said junk) is wired with that, that will limit current while starting and while running...

Either way, even if you have the BR with just 2 connections rather than the 4 connection shown, the car NEEDS to be wired correctly to RUN correctly.
 
As a point of reference, MSD originally started in El Paso, TX in about 1974. It's major item was "multi-spark" ignition systems. Up to 20 sparks/firing impulse up to 3000rpms. At a time of the earlier emission controls, I figured that was a better way to get complete combustion and lower emissions, but no OEM apparently thought so. In the earlier "transistorized" 1960s, powerful Capacitive Discharge systems used the points to trigger big zaps each time the plug fired. With issues of ultimate power and length of the spark being what allegedly differentiated one system from another.

MSD came out with a line of new control boxes, going from the stock-oriented "5" and going upward from there. For the Chrysler electronic system, they had a "MSD-5C" which plugged into the Chrysler wiring harness. All exclusively with the multi-spark capabilities.

With success came other issues, including financial ones. Result, the brand was sold a few times. The first few sales probably kept a lot of the earlier engineers and such, but after that, when it was decided to "expand the line", that seems to be when things started to get flaky. Then, a few more sales past that to get us to where we are today.

This makes them NO better than anybody else, these days. Their old "core" multi-strike boxes might still be some of the originally-engineered items, but all of the later "non-multi-spark" items might be things made for them? I know MSD seems to take pride in their current "Made in the USA" orientation, but as those old enough to remember when everything was made in the USA, not everything made here was worth having over the long haul. Different price points and quality variations between brands. BTAIM

As these prior "name brand" lines have been purchased "by others", somewhat consolidated into existing product portfolios, a good bit of "the old stuff" has been and will continue to be lost, unfortunately (in one respect), as the market it used to play in has diminished with time. Look at how much of the old "Accel" is still around, for example. When I looked at the Holley carb website the other thing, LOTS of stuff (as to OEM-related carburetors) has been lost, replaced by "lines" of Holleys which seem to be about selling features FEW customers really know how to use or really need, by observation. Most with powerful-sounding "street fighter" names. Carbs which are more universal than not. In one respect, just because they have a particular name and the two national warehouses sell them, does not make them a good product.

What makes a good electronic distributor is the basic distributor (shaft, bushings, advance weights AND springs) plus good electronics inside of and hooked to it. Nothing magical about that, but some have more issues than others. Davis Unified Ignition (later DUI) took the concept of the GM HEI ignition and expanded it to other brands of engines. Pertronix went from small/niche to what it is today, some products with multi-strike capabilities.

Now that I'm remembering a few things about Paul's car, it could well be that somebody decided to remove the ELB system from it. Might not have put back a pre-ELB system in the process. Which would explain the Holley 4175 vac secondary spreadbore carb and the MSD distributor. Who knows what else might have been done? Just a suspicion. I DO remember that many of the ELB cars were de-converted haphazzardly by people who did not know what they were doing. Which made those cars very inexpensive on the used car market, while the body was still in good condition. So as "cheap cars" they got treated as such by many buyers who thought the "were getting a deal". Unless they knew how to fix what had been altered, to use a good carb and such, it was not a good deal and resulted in Chryslers getting a bad name as to reliability.

So, Paul, as an additional winter project, get a Chrysler factory service manual for a 1975 Chrysler so you can see what the non-ELB wiring harness looks like. Then compare that to what you have, PLUS what MSD says their distributor needs to have hooked to it. Plus the other items like the Ballast Resistor and such. This way, you will know what's there and what it needs to be. Might also look for the factory schematic for a 1978 Chrysler, when ELB evolved into "Electronic Spark Control" with timing control and no specific "lean" carburetor calibration.

ONE possible issue might be . . . does the existing MSD distributor have weights and springs in it for the advance mechanism or is it a "non-advance" distributor as the earlier ELB distributor would be?

Thanks for your time and consideration,
CBODY67
 
As a point of reference, MSD originally started in El Paso, TX in about 1974. It's major item was "multi-spark" ignition systems. Up to 20 sparks/firing impulse up to 3000rpms. At a time of the earlier emission controls, I figured that was a better way to get complete combustion and lower emissions, but no OEM apparently thought so. In the earlier "transistorized" 1960s, powerful Capacitive Discharge systems used the points to trigger big zaps each time the plug fired. With issues of ultimate power and length of the spark being what allegedly differentiated one system from another.

MSD came out with a line of new control boxes, going from the stock-oriented "5" and going upward from there. For the Chrysler electronic system, they had a "MSD-5C" which plugged into the Chrysler wiring harness. All exclusively with the multi-spark capabilities.

With success came other issues, including financial ones. Result, the brand was sold a few times. The first few sales probably kept a lot of the earlier engineers and such, but after that, when it was decided to "expand the line", that seems to be when things started to get flaky. Then, a few more sales past that to get us to where we are today.

This makes them NO better than anybody else, these days. Their old "core" multi-strike boxes might still be some of the originally-engineered items, but all of the later "non-multi-spark" items might be things made for them? I know MSD seems to take pride in their current "Made in the USA" orientation, but as those old enough to remember when everything was made in the USA, not everything made here was worth having over the long haul. Different price points and quality variations between brands. BTAIM

As these prior "name brand" lines have been purchased "by others", somewhat consolidated into existing product portfolios, a good bit of "the old stuff" has been and will continue to be lost, unfortunately (in one respect), as the market it used to play in has diminished with time. Look at how much of the old "Accel" is still around, for example. When I looked at the Holley carb website the other thing, LOTS of stuff (as to OEM-related carburetors) has been lost, replaced by "lines" of Holleys which seem to be about selling features FEW customers really know how to use or really need, by observation. Most with powerful-sounding "street fighter" names. Carbs which are more universal than not. In one respect, just because they have a particular name and the two national warehouses sell them, does not make them a good product.

What makes a good electronic distributor is the basic distributor (shaft, bushings, advance weights AND springs) plus good electronics inside of and hooked to it. Nothing magical about that, but some have more issues than others. Davis Unified Ignition (later DUI) took the concept of the GM HEI ignition and expanded it to other brands of engines. Pertronix went from small/niche to what it is today, some products with multi-strike capabilities.

Now that I'm remembering a few things about Paul's car, it could well be that somebody decided to remove the ELB system from it. Might not have put back a pre-ELB system in the process. Which would explain the Holley 4175 vac secondary spreadbore carb and the MSD distributor. Who knows what else might have been done? Just a suspicion. I DO remember that many of the ELB cars were de-converted haphazzardly by people who did not know what they were doing. Which made those cars very inexpensive on the used car market, while the body was still in good condition. So as "cheap cars" they got treated as such by many buyers who thought the "were getting a deal". Unless they knew how to fix what had been altered, to use a good carb and such, it was not a good deal and resulted in Chryslers getting a bad name as to reliability.

So, Paul, as an additional winter project, get a Chrysler factory service manual for a 1975 Chrysler so you can see what the non-ELB wiring harness looks like. Then compare that to what you have, PLUS what MSD says their distributor needs to have hooked to it. Plus the other items like the Ballast Resistor and such. This way, you will know what's there and what it needs to be. Might also look for the factory schematic for a 1978 Chrysler, when ELB evolved into "Electronic Spark Control" with timing control and no specific "lean" carburetor calibration.

ONE possible issue might be . . . does the existing MSD distributor have weights and springs in it for the advance mechanism or is it a "non-advance" distributor as the earlier ELB distributor would be?

Thanks for your time and consideration,
CBODY67
MSD used to be one of the better manufacturers out there. I ran their products on the streets and in my drag car for years. Good stuff, not cheap, but always reliable.

A couple things happened, they were sold at least once, maybe a few times and now Holley owns the company. It went from a relatively small company to a large one where everything is cost oriented. The quality took a nose dive... I think about the time that they started manufacturing off shore. There are a bunch of counterfeit MSD units out there too and that doesn't help.

While I really have no experience with the MSD distributor, on the surface, it looks nice, but again, I would expect components to be offshore sourced and maybe... maybe assembled here. As some tool manufacturers are touting "USA built" when really all they are doing is boxing the tools or simple assembly with unskilled, low pay workers. But I digress....

Even if the MSD distributor does everything it claims and is reliable, it's really not a piece that I would even think of for a stock street car. Yea, it's easy to adjust advance and all that. but who is going to take advantage of that on a regular basis in their otherwise fairly stock street car. The OP got sold a "bill of goods" by the mechanic who instead of looking at good replacements that are easy to diagnose, replace, cost effective and easy to obtain. Instead he sold the OP an overpriced distributor and wired it wrong on top of it. If the car strands him, no one is going to be familiar enough with the MSD to do a decent diagnosis... Wired wrong and it's a nightmare. It's just the wrong piece for the car.

Cue the "I have an MSD distributor and I love it so much that I sleep with it under my pillow" guys. Nothing wrong with running one if you know the up and downsides. If you don't and you bought it because it looks cool and the latest magazine told you it was cool, then good luck. I have spare pieces for ignitions I carry in my old cars. For my Pertronix equipped car, I have a whole distributor ready to go. Basically no cost as I had it, but you get the idea. My Mopar electronic ignition 300 has a new ECU box in the trunk and the dual point 300L has points and condenser in the tool box. Point is they all can fail at about the same rate and conditions. Let's throw an overcomplicated, expensive ignition into the mix and then wire it wrong, give it to a guy that's not all that "old car" savvy (no insult to the OP intended in the least) and it's a recipe for disaster no matter what. The KISS principal should be applied to old cars almost without exception.

The only reason why I've been posting to these threads is I see a guy that really wants an old car, but he's getting a lot of advice that is confusing things for him. The thread went into electric cars and other nonsense and that's not helping... Perhaps I should keep my MSD distributor opinion to myself, but I can't help that it is now part of the equation. To sum it up, the car didn't want to start... A ballast resistor was mentioned and that lead me to saying "wait a minute, that shouldn't be there" and here we are debating MSD as a company.
 
when you get the flooding problem solved make sure you change the oil as it will be contaminated with fuel.
 
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