Questions on timing chain and oil slinger

[spstan]

I have pictures of my timing chain. My race car driving neighbor says it looks "awfully loose". I have no prior experience with timing chains so I thought I would post the pictures and see what you guys think. Does it look bad or have you seen worse?

The second question is on the oil slinger. I saw on Nick's Garage on You Tube where he takes apart a 1968 440 engine and the oil slinger was right in front when he removed the cover. When I took the timing chain cover off there was no oil slinger. Did the 1975 Chrysler New Yorker omit the oil slinger? Should I put a replacement oil slinger in even if there was no original part. Thanks Paul

 

[Big_John]

The usual failure point is the plastic teeth on the upper cam gear. The chain looks a little loose... I would replace as the timing cover is off already and that cam gear WILL eventually fail without warning.

And yes, I believe there should be an oil slinger.

 

[Big_John]

I might take that back about the oil slinger... I had to know... LOL... I looked in my '70 and then my '74 (newest I have) parts manuals and the '70 shows one and the '74 doesn't show one.

Someone else might be able to tell us if there was one.

 

[Luke Pokrajac]

Yep, you need to change out that timing gear set. As said, those nylon upper teeth can shred off...yours isnt that bad, but it is definitely worn. A new timing set will definitely increase engine power as timing will not be as retarded due to chain wear. You can see the wear in the upper gear teeth on the side of the chain that pulls the gear around in a clockwise motion.

 

[CBODY67]

Nylon-coated timing sprockets are NOT something to skimp on, period! Age is their enemy. Replace the dang thing and be done with it. Even a normal metal sprocket kit from a decent manufacturer will probably last 80K miles, but a Cloyes roller chain can last over 400K miles. Just the degree of insurance you want to have of not having to do it again. I kind of like the sound of a Cloyes roller chain, personally. That sound can also prove to a later owner that all is well in there.

As to the oil slinger, it's purpose is to deflect oil from the crank seal in the timing cover. In theory, as long as that lip seal is good, no leaks. BTAIM I'm suspecting you are changing that seal, too? Be sure to put a thin layer of lube on the seal prior to installation.

CBODY67

 

[spstan]

Nylon-coated timing sprockets are NOT something to skimp on, period! Age is their enemy. Replace the dang thing and be done with it. Even a normal metal sprocket kit from a decent manufacturer will probably last 80K miles, but a Cloyes roller chain can last over 400K miles. Just the degree of insurance you want to have of not having to do it again. I kind of like the sound of a Cloyes roller chain, personally. That sound can also prove to a later owner that all is well in there.

As to the oil slinger, it's purpose is to deflect oil from the crank seal in the timing cover. In theory, as long as that lip seal is good, no leaks. BTAIM I'm suspecting you are changing that seal, too? Be sure to put a thin layer of lube on the seal prior to installation.

CBODY67

don't understand "BTAIM". Do you think I should add an oil slinger? Paul

 

[spstan]

I might take that back about the oil slinger... I had to know... LOL... I looked in my '70 and then my '74 (newest I have) parts manuals and the '70 shows one and the '74 doesn't show one.

Someone else might be able to tell us if there was one.

Big ; do you think I should add an oil slinger? Paul

 

[spstan]

Nylon-coated timing sprockets are NOT something to skimp on, period! Age is their enemy. Replace the dang thing and be done with it. Even a normal metal sprocket kit from a decent manufacturer will probably last 80K miles, but a Cloyes roller chain can last over 400K miles. Just the degree of insurance you want to have of not having to do it again. I kind of like the sound of a Cloyes roller chain, personally. That sound can also prove to a later owner that all is well in there.

As to the oil slinger, it's purpose is to deflect oil from the crank seal in the timing cover. In theory, as long as that lip seal is good, no leaks. BTAIM I'm suspecting you are changing that seal, too? Be sure to put a thin layer of lube on the seal prior to installation.

CBODY67

CB; how loud is a Cloyes double roller chain??? I know I put an electric fuel pump in once and I didn't like the clicking sound. Paul

 

[commando1]

I might take that back about the oil slinger... I had to know... LOL... I looked in my '70 and then my '74 (newest I have) parts manuals and the '70 shows one and the '74 doesn't show one.

Someone else might be able to tell us if there was one.

The answered to this is, Depends.
I've seen four BB's while doing the timing chain and two had them. On one of the engines without the slinger, I thought I lost it and lost a day looking for it

 

[Big_John]

Big ; do you think I should add an oil slinger? Paul

It wouldn't hurt. All the earlier ones I've worked on had them.

 

[volksworld]

I've never heard a noticeable noise from a roller chain and i've put them in 6 of my vehicles through the years

 

[carguy300]

When I changed out gears and chain on my 68 440 there was no slinger on it but I did put one on just because!

 

[CBODY67]

(FWIW = For what it's worth. BTAIM = Be that as it may.)

As for the oil slinger . . . considering that on those where it was deleted "at the factory", per the parts books, that was when Chrysler was beginning to have some financial issues. Saving the money by deleting the slinger could save them a chunk of change they could use to pay bills elsewhere.

In theory, the inner lip on the seal should seal well as is, hence some "bean counters" probably said "Not Needed" and so it was not used any more. The only oil in that area would be "splash" rather than "pressure". Was the existing seal leaking or seeping?

CBODY67

 

[Justin Plant]

While looking for PNs for Cloyes timing sets they list both single and three bolt cam gears. I noticed that his is a single. I have been buying parts to do this job as well, just not the timing set yet. Did Chrysler make two different cam gears for a 75 400 or is the three bolt cam just aftermarket?

 

[CBODY67]

The normal timing sets were single-bolt cam sprockets. The 3-bolt came on 440-6bbl and 426HRMI engines, from the factory. Of course, most aftermarket cams can be had either way, usually the HP (more HP than 383/335 or 440/375) modified engines.

The extra bolts were probably there to better handle the stiffer valve springs of the 6bbl motors. Kind of a status symbol for the normal engines. PLUS a bunch of over-kill, too.

CBODY67

 

[commando1]

It wouldn't hurt. All the earlier ones I've worked on had them.

Agreed, BUT..... Make absolutely damn sure it's facing the right way.

 

[Big_John]

Agreed, BUT..... Make absolutely damn sure it's facing the right way.

Yes!! I've seen the ones put in the wrong way!! It's not pretty...

I looked for a pic on the intrawebs and found this:

 

[493mike]

When Chrysler went to the double lip front seal they cut the slinger out. I was working at a dealer during that period.
Mike

 

[kmccabe56]

I've never heard a noticeable noise from a roller chain and i've put them in 6 of my vehicles through the years

I put a double roller chain and CNC machined gears in a /6. At certain RPMs when the engine is at maximum torque, I can hear the cam gear ring very gently. I love the sound.

 

[CBODY67]

As things have progressed, with longer timing chains, many OEMs have started using double-roller timing chains.

I put one on my '77 Camaro 305 and no objectional noises. I could hear it at idle with the hood up, but that was the only time. Hearing that minor sound makes me smile as I know everything is good. Went over 400K miles with no change in sound.

CBODY67