Carb Questions

[66MonacoWagon]

I know that carbs are actively discussed - I am pretty new to my car and mopars, so forgive my elementary questions. I've got what I think are some choke/misfire issues (when revs over idle), and I'm thinking the carb will be a good place to start if its never been rebuilt (63K miles survivor car). I've got most the repair records but none showing the carb has ever been touched. Ignition parts were done at 50K in 2003. Car is a 66 Monaco wagon 383 4V California car with cleaner air package. I've run seafoam through it with no improvement.

Here is what I am trying to determine:
1. Is it original? Tag shows 4133S, base shows 9635S (?) I found a Carter 9133 is correct for a 66 383, so I think it's original.
2. Rebuild myself? Are they complicated? I've rebuilt several for my previous hobby (Chevy Corvairs)
3. If rebuilding, best place to buy and best kit?
4. If not rebuilding, easier to replace with a better carb? I'm only looking for factory performance.

Some pictures are attached.
Thanks!
Joe

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[4spd300J]

I know that carbs are actively discussed - I am pretty new to my car and mopars, so forgive my elementary questions. I've got what I think are some choke/misfire issues (when revs over idle), and I'm thinking the carb will be a good place to start if its never been rebuilt (63K miles survivor car). I've got most the repair records but none showing the carb has ever been touched. Ignition parts were done at 50K in 2003. Car is a 66 Monaco wagon 383 4V California car with cleaner air package. I've run seafoam through it with no improvement.

Here is what I am trying to determine:
1. Is it original? Tag shows 4133S, base shows 9635S (?) I found a Carter 9133 is correct for a 66 383, so I think it's original.
2. Rebuild myself? Are they complicated? I've rebuilt several for my previous hobby (Chevy Corvairs)
3. If rebuilding, best place to buy and best kit?
4. If not rebuilding, easier to replace with a better carb? I'm only looking for factory performance.

Some pictures are attached.
Thanks!
Joe

View attachment 141354

View attachment 141355

View attachment 141356

View attachment 141357

View attachment 141358

The 9635s was an aftermarket replacement spec'ed out for a small block Chevy application. Your pictures show an earlier top cover with the small (4-1/8") air horn. The 9635s would have a 5" airhorn. I would suspect some fuel / air passage missalignment issues with this combination.

 

[65sporty]

Tune up the engine or at least points. Edelbrock 1406, it's 600 cfm with electric choke. Use the 1481 adapter lever with it.

 

[Dobalovr]

Tune up the engine or at least points. Edelbrock 1406, it's 600 cfm with electric choke. Use the 1481 adapter lever with it.

X 2

 

[CBODY67]

Not sure why the tag(s) and the stamp number don't agree. The '66 Chrysler Parts Manual lists the Carter 4bbl 4133S as the correct carb for the 383 4bbl CAP application in C-body Dodges.

The AFB in the pre-'68 applications is unique to later ones with the "small pattern" base plate, rather than the "Holley" pattern which started with the '68s. Note how the distance from the front to rear mounting studs is greater than the side to side width. The air horn diameter is also smaller than the '68 carbs, too.

I would start by "kitting" the existing carb. The AFBs are pretty simple carbs to work on.

Notice, too, that unlike other OEM Carter AFBs, there probably is not any "air valve" in the secondary throttle bores. Full mechanical. But the cfm is not too large that WOT from base idle will bog the engine . . . it just goes. When I smoothed the casting flash from the venture cluster and throttle bores on my '67 Chrysler 383 4bbl, then I started to notice a slight bog when using WOT from idle. No bid deal, just "part-throttle it" first, then WOT after moving a little.

As for source on a kit? There can be some brands of kits that are better than others. Others in here might have more current information as it's been a while since I did that. ONLY thing is to use the thicker base gasket as the OEM one was, rather than the thinner "cardboard" gaskets which many kits tend to have. It works better and keeps the automatic choke thermostat's rod adjustment correct. The thinner ones have a tendency for the carb nuts to loosen, which happened to me a few times.

Some in here like the later Edelbrock AFBs, but their metering calibrations are more universal rather than OEM-spec as the "factory" carbs had, which might or might not be important. Using the stock carb is preferable, many times. Anything else might require modifications to work right.

On a related note, the part-throttle shift points can be a little low for fast-moving city traffic. Just depends upon where you drive. I thought the settings on our '66 Newport were fine, until I went to college and found I was suddenly "left at the light" by other traffic. Manually shifting worked, but what I ended up doing worked just as good or better.

The slotted rod in the trans kickdown linkage, at the carb. I added two turns of additional preload (lengthening) to it. That modestly raised the shift points enough that I didn't need the manual shifting activity. That little bit didn't affect trans durability or reliability one bit! The car accelerated better (more time in lower gears so that when it upshifted, the torque converter wasn't what was "carrying" the acceleration, keeping the torque converter more "solid" than not). On the '66 Newport 383 2bbl (2.76 gear and H78-14 tires), that meant the final 2-3 upshift (very light throttle) happened closer to 28mph, which would mean it was at 1000rpm at that speed. With 3.23 gears, it would be more like 25mph.

Just remove the retainer clip on the carb stud, slide the slotted rod off, turn and lengthen it 2 full turns, reinstall on throttle rod, reinstall retainer clip.

If you've successfully been through the Corvair carbs, the AFB might not be an issue. Pay attention to the gaskets and such, soaking and cleaning as needed. CHECK the existing float levels BEFORE seeking to adjust them, as they'll probably be pretty close as is, even with new needle/seats. A pretty straightforward carb to work on.

Please keep us advised of your progress.

CBODY67

 

[Big_John]

Tune up the engine or at least points. Edelbrock 1406, it's 600 cfm with electric choke. Use the 1481 adapter lever with it.

x3

 

[66MonacoWagon]

CBODY67, I appreciate all you have stated. I probably am not as well versed in carbs from my previous experiences. Beyond soaking them, replacing gaskets, checking float level, and balancing them, I am pretty dumb on all the terminology.

So, what I have learned from all the comments so far, is it looks like the carb I have is pieced together, and because of the mismatch maybe not ideal for a typical rebuild.

Why wouldn't I just want to find an original AFB and rebuild? What are the advantages of the 1406? Most importantly, how easy is it to install? I've never swapped out to a non-original carb on any of my cars.

Thanks!

 

[65sporty]

Swapping to the Edelbrock is sooo simple, new gasket, the 1481 lever adapter, use your stock linkage pin from the AFB for throttle and trans link, use the AFB fuel inlet fitting, power and ground for the choke (12v side of ballast resistor for switched ignition) and done.

 

[CBODY67]

The stamped number on the throttle body is well past what an AFB or AVS would have been for an OEM production carburetor. That makes the 9___S type number interesting to me. Had it not been for an earlier AFB, it would not have bolted together. The metering characteristics are in the main body, not the throttle body. Idle mixture and transition mixture, vacuum taps pcv vacuum hose are about all that relates to the throttle body itself.

The Edelbrock AFBs are basically the same as the earlier Carter AFBs in form and function. They have been modernized and universalized with electric chokes and a somewhat generic metering calibration (probably more 350 Chevy than 383 Chrysler), and allegedly improved items in the mix, but no one has ever mentioned what or how these things are improved, that I've seen. There is a guy in Eldon, MO that is "deep into" the Carter carburetors. He likes the original AFBs, dislikes the AVS, and more so the Edelbrock AFB. Be that as it may. Yet others have had good luck with them, just as others highly dislike Holley 4bbls, especially the OEM Chrysler models from the later 1960s. Be that as it may.

It's my suspicion that not much has changed from the original Carter AFBs and the Edelbrock versions, as to metering parts, but possibly have more modern casting processes. I haven't compared the metering calibrations between the OEM Chrysler and Edelbrocks to see just how close they might be.

The CAP carbs were usually a little leaner than normal, back then, plus supporting higher idle speeds and such. The higher idle speeds probably helped the leaner calibration as faster moving air is probably easier to fine tune the mixture on. I'm not sure if all of your CAP hardware would be supported by the 1406 per se, but it might.

The wire for the electric choke can be hidden in an existing wiring harness going to the distributor area. The stated throttle lever is probably to adapt the 1406 "Chevy" linkage to Chrysler linkage. Changing the throttle stud just takes two wrenches and about two minutes.

Current pricing for the 1406 in Summitt Racing is right at $335.00 for a new one. The throttle lever is $10.98. So with the wiring and connectors, probably right at $350.00 for the carb and getting in on the engine. As the air horn hole is smaller on your OEM AFB than the Edelbrock, you can search for a Chrysler 4bbl air cleaner (1968 and up) at swap meets or get the Mopar Perf "1968 Road Runner style" open element air cleaner for a factory performance look. So, depending upon which air cleaner that will clear the hood insulation and such, total price could approach $450.00 for the complete change-over.

Your car, your money, your judgment call.

CBODY67

 

[Welder guy]

600 edelbrock performer carb with the 1481 Chrysler linkage adapter worked very well with my 69 fury 383 car. Here are a few pictures of when I installed mine.

 

[Big_John]

Why wouldn't I just want to find an original AFB and rebuild? What are the advantages of the 1406?

If you can find a good AFB with correct numbers etc., there's nothing wrong with doing that. They aren't a complicated carb to rebuild and if you've done carbs before, you aren't going to have a problem.

Key word is "good". Finding a carb might be easy, finding a carb that's good enough to rebuild might be tougher.

The 1406 is easy and most guys have had very good luck with them. If you are willing to put in the time to find a rebuildable replacement, there's nothing wrong with that either. As was said, your call.

 

[Ripinator]

If you can find a good AFB with correct numbers etc., there's nothing wrong with doing that. They aren't a complicated carb to rebuild and if you've done carbs before, you aren't going to have a problem.

Key word is "good". Finding a carb might be easy, finding a carb that's good enough to rebuild might be tougher.

The 1406 is easy and most guys have had very good luck with them. If you are willing to put in the time to find a rebuildable replacement, there's nothing wrong with that either. As was said, your call.

I betcha there's a few old AFBs laying around FCBO. . .