New fuel pump, Half a full tank of gas, Won't Crank

[65SportFuryGuy]

Gentleman. A couple of couple of months ago I have to pump gas out of my tank due to a hurricane causing a gas shortage. Had to have it ready to be put it in my company van if necessary. Well didn't have to so I put it back in my 65 Sport Fury. Drove the car had no problems. One day I noticed some small pieces of black looking pieces of trash in my clean gas filter. I changed the filter. Needed to any way. Just figured it was trash from the tank. Drove the car the next day with not problems then one after driving it I smelled gas. Looked under the hood and the gas filter was leaking. I had cracked the glass. Brought and installed a new filter cranked the car ran fine no leaks. When to drive the car the next week and found that same type of trash in the filter again. Cleaned the trash out. The only thing I could come up with was the black trash like stuff was from the fuel pump. Not the tank. So I brought a new fuel pump and installed it. Installed a longer piece of 3/8 hose from the gas filter to the carburetor. Sprayed gas in the carburetor. Typed to crank the car it wouldn't crank. The gas gauge reads a little over half a tank. I have not checked to see if I have fire to the plugs yet. Will do next. Well guys, what am I missing. What are some other checks I can do.

 

[70Tom]

Fuel lines are somehow clogged with that black crap?

 

[Ripinator]

Gentleman. A couple of couple of months ago I have to pump gas out of my tank due to a hurricane causing a gas shortage. Had to have it ready to be put it in my company van if necessary. Well didn't have to so I put it back in my 65 Sport Fury. Drove the car had no problems. One day I noticed some small pieces of black looking pieces of trash in my clean gas filter. I changed the filter. Needed to any way. Just figured it was trash from the tank. Drove the car the next day with not problems then one after driving it I smelled gas. Looked under the hood and the gas filter was leaking. I had cracked the glass. Brought and installed a new filter cranked the car ran fine no leaks. When to drive the car the next week and found that same type of trash in the filter again. Cleaned the trash out. The only thing I could come up with was the black trash like stuff was from the fuel pump. Not the tank. So I brought a new fuel pump and installed it. Installed a longer piece of 3/8 hose from the gas filter to the carburetor. Sprayed gas in the carburetor. Typed to crank the car it wouldn't crank. The gas gauge reads a little over half a tank. I have not checked to see if I have fire to the plugs yet. Will do next. Well guys, what am I missing. What are some other checks I can do.

Your wording is confusing. When you say it won't crank, do you mean the engine won't turn over? Or does it turn over but not start?

 

[CanCritter]

lve had new pumps fail.....put gas in carb...if it starts replace fuel pump

 

[stubs300]

I changed the filter. Needed to any way. Just figured it was trash from the tank. Drove the car the next day with not problems then one after driving it I smelled gas. Looked under the hood and the gas filter was leaking. I had cracked the glass.

I have to ask, why did you use a glass filter? You're just asking for major troubles. If it won't crank, you need to check your battery, how old is it? What'd you do to kill the batt?

 

[pomonamissel]

i used to use those glass replaceable filter type , until one came apart on top of my 383 in my 65 880 rag , while it was running at a stop . and yes it caught on fire and cooked the engine and bottom of the hood . oh and yes it shorted out the wiring harness and fried the dash wiring harness . never again . and on your black pieces , have you replaced the short parts of rubber hose in your fuel delivery line as well . could be sucking air . and i had a few fuel pumps fail right out of the box . started buying high performance type mechanical ones . a lot more money . and have gone to electric types as well .

 

[Davea Lux]

Gentleman. A couple of couple of months ago I have to pump gas out of my tank due to a hurricane causing a gas shortage. Had to have it ready to be put it in my company van if necessary. Well didn't have to so I put it back in my 65 Sport Fury. Drove the car had no problems. One day I noticed some small pieces of black looking pieces of trash in my clean gas filter. I changed the filter. Needed to any way. Just figured it was trash from the tank. Drove the car the next day with not problems then one after driving it I smelled gas. Looked under the hood and the gas filter was leaking. I had cracked the glass. Brought and installed a new filter cranked the car ran fine no leaks. When to drive the car the next week and found that same type of trash in the filter again. Cleaned the trash out. The only thing I could come up with was the black trash like stuff was from the fuel pump. Not the tank. So I brought a new fuel pump and installed it. Installed a longer piece of 3/8 hose from the gas filter to the carburetor. Sprayed gas in the carburetor. Typed to crank the car it wouldn't crank. The gas gauge reads a little over half a tank. I have not checked to see if I have fire to the plugs yet. Will do next. Well guys, what am I missing. What are some other checks I can do.

The black crap is probably not coming from the tank. Usually black residue or chunks in the fuel filter is from deteriorated fuel lines. The fuel lines on you car were not designed for modern oxygenated fuel blends. Modern fuels break down the rubber components of the fuel system. I would start by replacing all of the rubber hoses between the fuel tank and the carb. While your at it, blow some CO2 thru the fuel sending unit to be sure the pick up sock is not clogged, be sure to remove the gas cap first. If the car turns over but does not start, try spraying a small amount of fuel down the carb throat, reinstall the air cleaner and attempt to start it. If it runs briefly and then dies, you are not getting fuel to the carb. Repeat putting some fuel in the carb several times as it might take awhile for the fuel pump to pick up fuel. Once you have determined that there is no fuel getting to the carb, you probably have a defective fuel pump. Many of the replacement fuel pumps sold at Auto Zone and other major retailers are made in China and the quality control is highly suspect as many are "dead" right out of the box as mentioned in the previous posts. Try to find a major brand pump, Carter, AC or similar, these have much better production control and will not usually be defective. Downside is that they will cost twice as much as the cheap crap, but you get what you pay for. I am assuming here that you have a charged battery and the car still turns over.

Dave

 

[FURYGT]

Did you put the "pushrod" back in correctly?

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

...... A couple of months ago I have to pump gas out of my tank..............then, I put it back in my 65 Sport Fury........... One day I noticed some small pieces of black looking pieces of trash in my clean gas filter. I changed the filter....... Just figured it was trash from the tank........

I will offer a different opinion from the others here.

I believe the gas can or cans that you filled with gas from your car and then emptied back INTO your car were contaminated with this "black trash" that you are now seeing in your fuel system. This is where the trash came from.

Check the cans for some of the remaining "black trash".

I believe you are going to have to clean the entire fuel system (including the tank) to get rid of this stuff.

 

[65SportFuryGuy]

Thanks guys for your replys. Yes the engine will turn over but will not fire. I had this problem a couple of years ago. The engine would turn over but would not fire and it turned out that the engine timing was way off. In other words it had jumped timing. I use a gas filter to check fuel flow, trash control etc. I try to change the filter each oil change or whenever I see trash in the filter. In pouring the gas back in the tank I poured it through a cloth filter and didn't see anything. This time I tightened the end of the filter too tight and cracked the glass causing the leak. The battery is a little over 2 yrs old and when I'm not driving the car I have a trickle charger on it in order to maintain a full charge on it. Pulling the tank and a few other things I will do this spring. Although the tank may have to take place sooner than spring. I do believe that I installed the push rod correctly.

Here's what I'm going to do next. (1) Check to be sure I'm getting fire to the plugs. If I'm not getting fire to the plugs then the problem is electrical. (2) Check and see how much gas is in the tank the best way I can. (Any suggestions on how to do that). The gas gauge says I'm a little over half full but the gauge can be wrong and I'm actually out of gas. (3) Put 5 more gallons of gas in the tank, use starter fluid, a remote starter and watch the gas filter for flow in order to see what happens.

If I have fire to the plugs and the gas gauge has risen from adding 5 gallons more of gas, using starter fluid, remote starter, and see no gas flow through the gas filter while the engine is turning over, it has to be that the push rod is over the cam not under the cam. If it's wrong, I'll correct it. I might just check it anyway.

How does my game plan sound to you guys

 

[Davea Lux]

Thanks guys for your replys. Yes the engine will turn over but will not fire. I had this problem a couple of years ago. The engine would turn over but would not fire and it turned out that the engine timing was way off. In other words it had jumped timing. I use a gas filter to check fuel flow, trash control etc. I try to change the filter each oil change or whenever I see trash in the filter. In pouring the gas back in the tank I poured it through a cloth filter and didn't see anything. This time I tightened the end of the filter too tight and cracked the glass causing the leak. The battery is a little over 2 yrs old and when I'm not driving the car I have a trickle charger on it in order to maintain a full charge on it. Pulling the tank and a few other things I will do this spring. Although the tank may have to take place sooner than spring. I do believe that I installed the push rod correctly.

Here's what I'm going to do next. (1) Check to be sure I'm getting fire to the plugs. If I'm not getting fire to the plugs then the problem is electrical. (2) Check and see how much gas is in the tank the best way I can. (Any suggestions on how to do that). The gas gauge says I'm a little over half full but the gauge can be wrong and I'm actually out of gas. (3) Put 5 more gallons of gas in the tank, use starter fluid, a remote starter and watch the gas filter for flow in order to see what happens.

If I have fire to the plugs and the gas gauge has risen from adding 5 gallons more of gas, using starter fluid, remote starter, and see no gas flow through the gas filter while the engine is turning over, it has to be that the push rod is over the cam not under the cam. If it's wrong, I'll correct it. I might just check it anyway.

How does my game plan sound to you guys

You already put gas in the tank, I would hold off on putting more in until you have determined that contaminated fuel is not your problem. Since the car ran prior to removing the fuel pump, I would start there and be sure the drive rod is correctly installed. While you have the pump off the car, hook a piece of clean fuel line to the discharge side of the pump. Try blowing air into the end of the clean fuel line, you should not be able to do so. If air flows freely, the check valve in the pump is bad and you need a new pump. This is a common problem with the Chinese made pumps. Once you have a working pump installed, put an ounce or so of fuel down the carb throat and attempt to start. If it runs, you have solved the problem. It might take two or three tries at this to get fuel to the carb. If the car runs briefly but quits once the fuel prime is exhausted, you probably either have a clogged sock on the tank pickup tube or there is an air leak some place between the pump and the tank.
I do not recommend using starter fluid as I have seen way too many damaged engines. My favorite is the guy who was driving home and his car quit. He was able to coast into a gas station. He and the idiot gas jockey put two cans of starter fluid into the engine trying to get it to run. Blew off both valve covers, the carb and blew the front half of the brake booster into the battery. Car had quit originally due to a bad timing chain.

Dave

 

[detmatt]

If you’re taking the pump off you might also remove the pump pushrod and check it for length, it should be 3 3/16” long.

 

[saylor]

+1 on NEVER GLASS FILTERS EVER AGAIN
my homeboy had one on his t/a and the rubber seal on the end gave out - while the car was running - same story as above - large fire, bunch of smoked wiring, burnt hood, etc, etc, no fun.


try not to die -

- saylor

+1 more for the mystery black flecks being old-*** rubber fuel line breaking down.

+1 more for maybe your carb needles are clogged with the stuff.

 

[LeBaron1973]

Don't forget to check the tank sender. If the float is saturated with gas or damaged it'll provide a false reading.

Gauge good sender faulty
Gauge bad sender good.

Hope it's fixed soon

 

[stubs300]

As mentioned somewhere above, disconnect the line at the pump and put a hose on it, remove the gas cap and give a good hard blow on the line to the tank. You should either hear or have someone else there to listen for bubbles in the tank. This will tell you that that line is clear. What it won't tell you is if you got crap in the tank that clogging the sock as now it will try to suck that crap and not gas muckin things up. Do the same to the carb line as well. I'm still stickin with you messed up somewhere with the pump push rod. Good Luck

 

[65SportFuryGuy]

You know guys I'm going to go ahead and pull the fuel pump first and check the length of the push rod again the old fuel pump push rod length to see if they are the same and to see if I had the push rod installed correctly under the cam not over and if everything is correct I'll put a little gas in the carburetor and see what happens. If it still doesn't turn over then I will back track through my steps. You guys have given me a lot of good things to check and think over. Thank you. I will let you guys know what the out come is after pulling and reinstalling the fuel pump is.

 

[stubs300]

Just a FYI if your pump rod isn't in all the way is to put a goober of grease on the rod that way it kinda sticks in it's place instead of sliding out and causing a PITA to install the pump correctly. Good Luck

 

[65SportFuryGuy]

Good Morning gentlemen. As I said earlier that I was going ahead and pulling the fuel pump first. After I finished cleaning up my shop and doing a couple of honey do things yesterday I raised the hood and remembered that the fuel pump was under the alternator and what a hard time I had pulling the old fuel pump and disconnecting the fuel lines without pulled the alternator first. I also remembered that the alternator support bracket was in the way and I had put the fuel pump up into the opening at an angle with the push rod pointing up. My first thought was that putting it in that way would have put the push rod up over the cam and not under the cam. I pulled the alternator and the support bracket which gave me a path way to remove and reinstall the fuel pump with not problems. I pulled the pump and compared the push rod against the old push rod and they were the same length. The top of the end of the rod (the face) had no marks from the cam striking it telling me that the push rod was over the cam not under the cam. As stubs300 said I put a goober of grease on the end of the rod on the face and reinstalled the pump. This time I put the push rod in pointing down not up as I did before and hooked everything back up. Had to stop there. Didn't have time to try and start the engine yesterday. Will do that this afternoon. Will let you guys know how that goings.

 

[65 500]

Good Morning gentlemen. As I said earlier that I was going ahead and pulling the fuel pump first. After I finished cleaning up my shop and doing a couple of honey do things yesterday I raised the hood and remembered that the fuel pump was under the alternator and what a hard time I had pulling the old fuel pump and disconnecting the fuel lines without pulled the alternator first. I also remembered that the alternator support bracket was in the way and I had put the fuel pump up into the opening at an angle with the push rod pointing up. My first thought was that putting it in that way would have put the push rod up over the cam and not under the cam. I pulled the alternator and the support bracket which gave me a path way to remove and reinstall the fuel pump with not problems. I pulled the pump and compared the push rod against the old push rod and they were the same length. The top of the end of the rod (the face) had no marks from the cam striking it telling me that the push rod was over the cam not under the cam. As stubs300 said I put a goober of grease on the end of the rod on the face and reinstalled the pump. This time I put the push rod in pointing down not up as I did before and hooked everything back up. Had to stop there. Didn't have time to try and start the engine yesterday. Will do that this afternoon. Will let you guys know how that goings.

I'm not quite sure what you are doing, but the push rod is not part of the fuel pump. It goes into it's own bore and can only be installed one way, not over or under the cam. The fuel pump lever doesn't touch the cam itself. The "goober of grease" is so that the push rod will kind of stick in its bore, otherwise the push rod tends to slide down and gets in the way of the fuel pump lever preventing you from installing the pump.

The orange arrow is pointing at the push rod.

 

[Big_John]

I agree with Dave that the black junk is probably a bad rubber hose. The new gas will cause that. One spot that is often overlooked is the piece of hose from the fuel tank to the fuel line. Even if the gas doesn't ruin it, the hose can crack or deteriorate with age and I've seen quite a few that have never been changed. A small crack won't let even vacuum build to pull gas from the tank. Before you do anything else, I would check and replace the hose there and all the underhood hoses.

When you have the tank hose and the hose before the fuel pump off, this would be a great time to blow some compressed air back down the fuel line to remove any junk. Don't blow compressed air through the fuel pump though.

I believe that you have to address that problem before you start randomly pulling and replacing other parts. It's a couple bucks worth of hoses and clamps and a half hour of time. FWIW, I started using the high pressure hose on advice from a buddy in the parts business. His reasoning is the high pressure hose is always ethanol proof, where the low pressure stuff may or may not be.

From there, it's time to check a couple things.... Before you pull the fuel pump and start checking rod length etc., you can do a really simple test. Disconnect the fuel line before the fuel filter and place a length of rubber hose on it. The other end of the hose gets stuck in a plastic Coke bottle. Now have someone crank the engine over while you watch the bottle. The rule of thumb is 30 seconds of cranking should fill a 16 oz bottle, but honestly, if there's a strong stream (it will pulse with the pump stroke) of gas, you're good.

Next you have to check ignition for spark. Everybody has a favorite way to do that... I disconnect the coil wire at the distributor and stick an old phillips screwdriver in the wire. While someone cranks the engine, I move the screwdriver to any convenient engine bolt etc. and check to see if there is a good strong spark.

Those are two, very basic, zero cost tests that take a couple minutes. Before you replace anything when your car doesn't start, you should do them first. They will save you lots of money, time and aggravation.