Aluminum Radiator Nightmare!

[Mudeblue]

I verbally ordered an aluminum radiator from JEG’s in May of this year for a 1965 Plymouth Sports Fury – 383 which I am restoring. The order placed was for a Griffin Radiator which was specifically for the 65 SF at a substantial cost; substantial! I received written confirmation of the order on June 13 that it would be shipped directly from the vendor and on June 24 I received notification that it had been shipped and was later received in July. When the radiator was received and before installation, I had it polished to match other engine parts; looked great. It was not immediately installed because we also were installing a serpentine belt with A/C Pump, Power Steering Pump and Alternator. We were working with exact tolerances which were determined before hand for the inclusion of electric fans. All was good; it allowed for ½” tolerance between Serpentine Pulleys and Electric Fans whose thickness are the maximum acceptable for this installation and yet provide adequate air flow.

Upon installation, there was only a 1/16” tolerance between the Radiator/Electric Fans and the Serpentine Pulleys; obviously not acceptable. It was at this time that it was discovered that the Radiator Brackets were different between the sides of the Radiator with the Right Side being 4”’s, unacceptable, and the Left Side being 3 ½”, acceptable.

I contacted JEG’s who referred me to Griffin Radiator. Griffin Radiator Customer Service denied a return/replacement on the basis that the Radiator Top had been polished and the wrong Part Number was ordered (hard to polish a radiator after installation and the fact it is, should not be a show stopper). They then argued, insisted, the Radiator Part Number ordered was for a B Body and not a C Body and therefore they were not responsible for shipping the wrong Radiator. I never ordered a specific Part Number but ordered by Make and Model. I requested a copy of the order showing the Part Number ordered which they received from JEG’s and they stated they could not provide me with that because it would violate their agreement with JEG’s. I requested and spoke with the Sales Manager at Griffin who reiterated what Customer Service had stated that it would violate their contract with JEG’s (how providing me with the part number would violate an agreement is beyond me) and he also denied the return. Interestingly, the Part Number of the Radiator they shipped me is advertised on Griffin’s website as “also fitting a 1965 Plymouth SF.” The Sales Manager stated that no where on their web site could I find where they advertised that Model Number as fitting a 1965 SF; (as I am looking at it)! He then stated “you can’t rely on the internet.” The Sales Manager concluded the conversation by stating this is a matter I would have to resolve with JEG’s and not Griffin.

I have now purchased two Griffin Radiators including one for a 1966 GTO, which was also wrong. I was forced to seek a third-party sale for the GTO radiator, purchased through a distributor, who Griffin also had refused to allow the return. I had to then replace it with another. Griffin - Great Looking Product, Lousy Customer Service!

To make the situation even more frustrating, I have now attempted to call JEG's on several occasions and have been on hold for a little as 1 hour and as many as 4 1/2 hours with never have been able to talk to anyone - ya just give up! It would seem that "Customer Service" is only a term that is now found in a dictionary!

Question: Can the weld on the bracket for the radiator be taken off and replaced and if so, how is it removed and and re-welded/attached!

 

[Bigasawhale2]

Suggestion, post some pictures

Most probable, bracket cant be removed and another bracket can be TIG welded back on

 

[CBODY67]

The unfortunate part is that Jeg's (or similar) is only a broker for the Griffin Part. Once they get the order for a Griffin item, they collect the payment, transfer the order to Griffin for fulfillment, and they are done with it.

Usually, only "new and unmolested" parts are accepted for return, by anybody, even OEMs. Polishing it rendered it, in their orientations, un-resaleable, no matter what.

Hope you can figure out how to modify the Griffin mounts to work on your car.

Respectfully,
CBODY67

 

[57fury440]

I would find someone near you that is good at welding aluminum. Have him remove the bracket for you. Modify it so it works and then let him reinstall it. It is too bad you would have to do all this, but it can be done. In hindsight you should have checked the fit before it was polished. I still think they should have exchanged it for you. They could sell the polished one for more money.

 

[Mudeblue]

The unfortunate part is that Jeg's (or similar) is only a broker for the Griffin Part. Once they get the order for a Griffin item, they collect the payment, transfer the order to Griffin for fulfillment, and they are done with it.

Usually, only "new and unmolested" parts are accepted for return, by anybody, even OEMs. Polishing it rendered it, in their orientations, un-resaleable, no matter what.

Hope you can figure out how to modify the Griffin mounts to work on your car.

Respectfully,
CBODY67

Understand what you are saying if it was modified/altered by the purchaser but when they supplied the WRONG part, they should take some if not all of the responsibility AND I wasn't even going to charge them for the cost of polishing! Like I said, they advertise the radiator as fitting a 65 SF so the initial mistake was theirs for which they aren't taking responsibility! Like I said, this is the second time this vendor stuck me so foolish me. I will get a great amount of pleasure out of telling this story at car shows plus I will be reporting this to the Consumer Protection Agency here in Arizona. I am tired of vendors advertising something that is incorrect and then after purchase, refuse to stand behind their products and with the number of parts I have ordered with this restoration, I have many!

 

[jimmyessbee]

I have no helpful words but am curious... Are radiators the same between b and c bodies in '65?

 

[Mudeblue]

I have no helpful words but am curious... Are radiators the same between b and c bodies in '65?

Although Griffin's web site says states "also fits a 1965 Plymouth SF" it obviously doesn't because of the difference in the brackets but as to the radiator itself, yes it is the same. Appearance wise, it is very nice which is only enhanced when polished.

 

[Mudeblue]

I would find someone near you that is good at welding aluminum. Have him remove the bracket for you. Modify it so it works and then let him reinstall it. It is too bad you would have to do all this, but it can be done. In hindsight you should have checked the fit before it was polished. I still think they should have exchanged it for you. They could sell the polished one for more money.

Totally agree, they could have sold it; who wouldn't like a aluminum radiator that looks like chrome! However, to check the fit before polishing would have been impractical because not only for the potential of damage but because the serpentine belt, fans, etc. would have all had to be installed to make that determination and then pulled back out to do the polishing and then reinstalled AND if there was any damage in the process of doing it or a defect discovered, they would deny the claim for that reason! Furthermore, it was advertised as fitting a 65 SF so you take them at their word since you rely on them to be the "experts" regarding their products. Thanks for the advice and it seems that is my only option to attempt a re-manufacture.

 

[Mudeblue]

Suggestion, post some pictures

Most probable, bracket cant be removed and another bracket can be TIG welded back on

 

[Justin Plant]

Please understand, I'm with you on this....however this is a cautionary tale to all. Some of us have learned the same lesson here already. Pull whatever you just ordered out of the box and test fit before anything else is done. Especially in a custom application. That said, it's no real skin off JEG's or Griffins back to return the damn thing. I've been in retail management most of my life, taking care of the customer has always been rule #1. Shame on them.
Good luck with the rest of your project.

 

[jimmyessbee]

Although Griffin's web site says states "also fits a 1965 Plymouth SF" it obviously doesn't because of the difference in the brackets but as to the radiator itself, yes it is the same. Appearance wise, it is very nice which is only enhanced when polished.

Well, that's assuming it would fit a b-body which doesn't seem like a fair assumption to me.

 

[3175375]

Accept where you are with this, learn from it and move on. You can correct the issue. Do it! The radiator looks great!

 

[CBODY67]

In research, only the '69 Belvedere 383 26" radiator is listed as also using the "332" (industry designation) radiator per se. Another number is listed for the '66 Plymouth C-body.

One other issue is that Griffin and others first offered items as "universal fit", not "drop-in/OEM fit". That is their heritage, as far as I have observed from when they first started. BTAIM

In the realm of retail/wholesale automotive parts, at the OEM level, unless the returned (or sought to be returned) item is in unmolested condition and in the original "wrapper", no OEM will issue credit for it, so why should the dealer/re-seller do otherwise? Certainly, they might take it back and then worry about finding somebody that might want it at a loss (to them), but why should they do this? Might have been different if the part also fit a Camaro? Several different dynamics here, I suspect.

And, of course, nobody will admit why the "wrong item" was shipped in the first place, although a bit of tracing should reveal that on their level. OR even if their web-based catalog was completely accurate.

But, much of this might get back to the aftermarket culture of the company starting as a "universal fit" organization. If the customer alters the item, correct or not, from its original condition when shipped, it's theirs . . . according to their internal policy and procedures documents . . . which are not to be violated. So ALWAYS check the Return Policy when shopping for a vendor, no matter how well they might be known.

And, in some cases years ago, when I had more disposable income, if a customer had bought a part for an incorrect application (according to factory literature, and also which I knew should fit), I would write the customer credit and then re-purchase the item for myself, at employee cost, and then I was responsible for doing something with it, one way or another. By observation, very few others in my profession would have done this, or even considered it. So I have a small collection of items I will never need or use, but nothing as expensive as what is being discussed here. I was doing it to help them out, NOT to get me items at employee cost. BTAIM

Respectfully,
CBODY67

 

[azblackhemi]

PM sent. I got a guy!

 

[68 4spd Fury]

I'm curious, it looks like the radiator is as close to the support as possible. How much space is the belt/pully/fan system taking up?

 

[Omni]

Interestingly, the Part Number of the Radiator they shipped me is advertised on Griffin’s website as “also fitting a 1965 Plymouth SF.”

In the words of the late/great Ronald Reagan: "trust but verify".

 

[volksworld]

fwiw i saw a post on the B body site stating that Jeg's had been sold to a private equity firm this year...so since you're no longer dealing with the Coughlin family i'm guessing the new bean counters have a much better "not our problem" policy in place....that being said its hard to tell with all the shrinkwrap on the tank but it doesnt look like the radiator is sitting in there cockeyed ....and there doesnt look like there is an extra 1/2 inch of room between the tank and the radiator support on the 4 inch side?

 

[Mudeblue]

I'm curious, it looks like the radiator is as close to the support as possible. How much space is the belt/pully/fan system taking up?

The belt/pulley/fan system is not the issue if the right bracket was 3 1/2" like it is suppose to be and as it is on the original radiator.

 

[3C's & a D?]

I'm curious, it looks like the radiator is as close to the support as possible. How much space is the belt/pully/fan system taking up?

The plastic wrap makes it hard to see, but it looks like it's nice and close on the driver side, and there's a gap on the passenger side. I can't imagine why that would be as most (all that I've seen) rad supports, are flat across the hole.

This makes me wonder if it's a manufacturing defect. In this case both brackets should be 3 1/2", other models use 4"? One bracket got mixed in with the others, and the welder didn't notice?

Whatever the case, it won't be hard to fix, for a good welder. It does stink to find out, and have to go through though. The welding job will likely be less than polishing another tank.

 

[Justin Plant]

I think what he's saying is, the gap between the tank and radiator support looks the same from left to right.