1970 Cjhrysler 300 Headlights - Change to Halogen

[Waggy]

I decided to change the headlights on my 1970 300 to Halogen and had problems even since! Initially the lights worked, but they would cut out and the doors would close, then open again. A relay was over heating I guess, shutting down, the lights would go out and the door close like I turned the lights off. It would cool down, lights would go back on and the door opened.
I when got a separate headlight wiring harness that the old harness plugs in to the new harness's relay and the new harness gets it's main power directly from the battery. With this, things worked fine until one day I was driving a long and the car stopped dead like the fuseable link wire was blown. I was towed home. The wire was not blown, but I replaced it anyway. It happened again, this time I have extra fuseable links, I replaced the link, drove on, then it happened again, replace it again and then had to be towed home. This was about a 6 mile trip in all.
I then noticed the lights went very bright when I stepped on the gas and the voltage gage was maxing out. I put a new voltage regulator in.

Things seemed to be fine until I noticed the headlights were not turning off when I turned the switch off. I took the replays out of the new harness and put them back and the problem went away. Then I noticed the voltage gage was getting high when I stepped on the gas again.

I have now got a new harness, plugged it in and the headlights are staying on after I turn the lights off. If I turn the key off they go off. When I step on the gas, where with the old lights it would go to the 5/8 stop, with the new lights it goes to the 3/4 stop.

I would like to go halogen because I think I would be able to see better, so I am not sure what to do!
Should I -
1) go back to the old lights?
2) go with the new lights and hope the car does not shut down on me?
3) just replace the low beam with halogen and keep using the old harness?
Does the voltage gage measure volts or someone said it measured amps?
Is this harness causing the alternator to generate too much electricity some how?

 

[OneEyed]

I guess doing some amperage math is where I would start. Sounds like too much current draw. Maybe the relays need to be upgraded and bigger wire never hurts, if you can feel that the wire is physically warm/hot then you need bigger wire. Sounds like this car has the hideaway headlights?

Also, your fuseable link may need to be upgraded as well to handle the extra current. (could this be replaced with a breaker?)

 

[Wildaugust]

When you say Halogen are you referring to Sealed Beam lights or did you buy the headlamps with separate replaceable bulbs?

I ran into a problem when I upgraded to Halogen Sealed Beams. The complete set of four is 30 Watts more than the old set of four incandescent sealed beams. The headlights with the replaceable bulbs pull a whole lot more current than the Halogen sealed beam upgrades.

Anyway, this resulted in my headlight switch failing and the connector at my floor mounted dimmer switch melted. The best solution is to install headlight relays, which you did. It sounds like something with the headlight relays isn't wired right. The headlight relay harness should just be "Plug 'n' Play". It should just plug into one of your car's existing headlight sockets. The main power wire for the relay harness should just connect to the Positive battery cable, either at the battery or at the Starter Relay. It should have a fuse or circuit breaker in it's power lead. The Headlight Relay harness should also have a ground wire. That should be it. It shouldn't require any other connections.

If everything was working fine up until you installed halogen headlights, and you didn't make any other changes to your car, I would say that there is a chance that the increased current flow may have damaged the connections at the firewall Bulkhead Connector. This may explain why the entire car would "shut down" without blowing the Fusible Link.

 

[ceebuddy]

I ran into a problem when I upgraded to Halogen Sealed Beams. The complete set of four is 30 Watts more than the old set of four incandescent sealed beams.

According to my research, the actual curent drawn and wattage is the same, if not less, than on old-style, non-halogen sealed beams. H5006 bulb (halogen high-low-beam for 4 headlight system) has 35/35 Watts while an old-style 4000 bulb (incandescent high-low-beam for 4 headlight system) has 60/37.5 Watts. So running an H5006 on low beams draws actually less current.

Halogen filaments are more effective than conventional filaments. Halogen sealed beams run on the same wattage are actually brighter than incandescent sealed beams, so the wattage may be reduced to achieve the same candlepower output. Plus the color of the light is whiter, which makes them also appear to be brighter.

So I would not see how switching to Halogen sealed beams itself would challenge the light switch. Perhaps the contact prongs in the car's socket are corroded and now there is a bad connection to the new headlights?

 

[Wildaugust]

The old style Incandescent sealed beams were 60 Watts each on Low Beam, for a total of 120 Watts. The outside pair were dual filament bulbs and were 37.5 Watts each on High Beam. On High Beam they were lit along with the inside pair of sealed beams which were dedicated High Beam bulbs. The inside pair of incandescent headlamps were also around 37.5 Watts each. So, when on High Beam all four lamps were lit for a total wattage of approximately 150 Watts.

When you install Halogen Sealed Beams, the Low Beam filaments actually draw less current as they are only 35 Watts each. However, when you click the High Beams on, you are drawing higher amperage than with the Incandescent Sealed Beams. While it's true that the outside pair of dual filament bulbs are only 35 Watts on high beam, the inside pair are 50 Watts each. So, now you have a total of 170 Watts instead of 150 Watts, which seems to be just enough extra current to cause problems with the headlight switch, or at least it was in my case.

I had based my original post on the old sealed beams being 35 Watts each on high beam instead of 37.5 Watts each, so instead of the entire set of Halogens being 30 Watts more, the entire set of four is actually 20 Watts more than the set of Incandescent sealed beams.

 

[67Monaco]

He stated "I when got a separate headlight wiring harness that the old harness plugs in to the new harness's relay and the new harness gets it's main power directly from the battery."

If he's getting main power directly from the battery for lights, the fusible link isn't in that loop. My guess would be a shorted headlight switch, OR, the alternator is WAY over charging.

 

[Wildaugust]

Even if the Headlight Relays are getting power directly from the battery, the Halogens still increase the load on the charging system. The alternator still has to charge the battery and, unless he has rewired his charging system, that increased current will be going through the bulkhead connector.

The thing is though, we still don't know if he installed Halogen sealed beams or the type of headlights with the separate replaceable Halogen bulbs, in which case each bulb could be anywhere from 55 Watts to 100 Watts. Anyway, maybe we can figure it out when he gets back to us.

 

[tbm3fan]

Seems more specific info is needed. I run halogens in my 73. I have the bypass installed for the charging system. I made my own harness along with Bosch relays. Power directly from the battery with a fuse in line. Switch the relays on via a 16 gauge wire plugged into one of the original, and now unused, headlight sockets. Works flawlessly.

Here halogens (?) with new harness (?) and relays (?) are mentioned.

 

[thrashingcows]

Seems more specific info is needed. I run halogens in my 73. I have the bypass installed for the charging system. I made my own harness along with Bosch relays. Power directly from the battery with a fuse in line. Switch the relays on via a 16 gauge wire plugged into one of the original, and now unused, headlight sockets. Works flawlessly.

Here halogens (?) with new harness (?) and relays (?) are mentioned.

This is what is necessary when trying to run new high watt, high amp headlights. You have to run a good headlight relay system.

Stay away form those Off Shore garbage systems you see on E-bay. I recently bought a cheapy set to check them out. The wire casing "looks" like 12ga...but the casing is 3x's thicker then it should be, and the wiring is maybe 20ga!

Either get a good prefab systems from someone like Painless wiring, or other USA made parts company. Or build your own like tbm3fan did. I will be building my own for my 84 crewcab, and then plan on building 2 more sets, one for the 68 wagon, and one for my 48 Desoto.

 

[300rag]

... and one for my 48 Desoto.

Not to derail this thread, but how is Fernando?

 

[thrashingcows]

Not to derail this thread, but how is Fernando?

Since I spent last winter converting my cummins crewcab fro m2wd to 4wd...I did not even get Fernando home to work on it. So it's been in storage for the last year. I did go out recently and fire it up. This winter I hope to get a lot done...rewired from front to back etc.

Thanks for asking. ;)

 

[tbm3fan]

Either get a good prefab systems from someone like Painless wiring, or other USA made parts company. Or build your own like tbm3fan did. I will be building my own for my 84 crewcab, and then plan on building 2 more sets, one for the 68 wagon, and one for my 48 Desoto.

Shots of mine. Power wires are 10 ga. Relay to headlight sockets are 12 ga. Grounds are 12 ga. Trigger wire is left over 16 ga. but even 18 ga. is ok. Power comes off solenoid. Sockets purchased have soldered and crimped terminals inside rather than crimped. Relays are 30amp Bosch ISO. The real things and not generic. Actually Tyco since they bought Bosch. A 30amp self-resetting circuit breaker. Third pic shows the green trigger wires plugged into the old headlight socket.

 

[tbm3fan]

Pictures of the self-resetting circuit breaker. Main power on the right and two relay power wires on the left. One relay for high and one for low with their own power.

 

[Waggy]

I have H4 White Headlight Halogen Bulb light 12V 60/55W in the car on a separate system. I am not using sealed beams, I am using the bulb replacements.
The problem is I do not know if I will have a problem or when! The car is running but the volt meter shows a higher voltage charge when the Halogen lights are in. Is that a problem? When is it a problem?

 

[tbm3fan]

I have H4 White Headlight Halogen Bulb light 12V 60/55W in the car on a separate system. I am not using sealed beams, I am using the bulb replacements.
The problem is I do not know if I will have a problem or when! The car is running but the volt meter shows a higher voltage charge when the Halogen lights are in. Is that a problem? When is it a problem?

I'm still trying to figure out what you mean by separate system. Mine above is a separate system. Power directly from solenoid to the relays and power directly from alternator to solenoid. Nothing goes through my bulkhead or cabin light switch. All the head light switch does is trigger the relays and the lights are bright.

Once put sealed halogen on my 68 Cougar and immediately there were problems. Light waxed and waned based on engine rpm and at idle they flickered. In a Ford all power for the headlights goes through the switch and then into 20 year old wiring with a point regulator. Switching back to OEM and the problem was gone. Apparent that the power needed was too much for the car as it was. Since I don't drive it at night I have left it untouched while three others got upgraded systems.

 

[Waggy]

By separate system, I mean the new system is plugged in to the battery, and the lights are getting the power directly from the battery. The old system only feeds the relay a little current. The power for the new lights are not coming from the old wiring or the bulkhead.

 

[Wildaugust]

These headlights with replaceable bulbs are pulling way more current than your car's electrical system can handle. Even the Halogen Sealed Beams are pushing things to the limit if you don't install headlight relays.

There is no such thing as "free electricity" when it comes to this. Yes, you are powering your lights directly from the battery, but assuming your lights are 60 Watts each, when on "High Beam", you are pulling 240 Watts of current from your battery. The original high beam circuit only pulled 150 Watts. The alternator has to keep your battery charged and the only way that it can do that is to send the current through the AMP Gauge in your dash and through the bulkhead connector in the firewall, through the Fusible Link. There is no other path.

I don't know which alternator your car was equipped with but it is probably too small, low amperage, for this job. You can't just put a larger, higher amperage alternator in though because you will melt your car's factory wiring harness. If you want to run these headlights you'll have to upgrade your charging system.

Please read up on the "MAD Conversion".

 

[ceebuddy]

The old style Incandescent sealed beams were 60 Watts each on Low Beam, for a total of 120 Watts. The outside pair were dual filament bulbs and were 37.5 Watts each on High Beam. On High Beam they were lit along with the inside pair of sealed beams which were dedicated High Beam bulbs. The inside pair of incandescent headlamps were also around 37.5 Watts each. So, when on High Beam all four lamps were lit for a total wattage of approximately 150 Watts.

When you install Halogen Sealed Beams, the Low Beam filaments actually draw less current as they are only 35 Watts each. However, when you click the High Beams on, you are drawing higher amperage than with the Incandescent Sealed Beams. While it's true that the outside pair of dual filament bulbs are only 35 Watts on high beam, the inside pair are 50 Watts each. So, now you have a total of 170 Watts instead of 150 Watts, which seems to be just enough extra current to cause problems with the headlight switch, or at least it was in my case.

That makes sense! I totally forgot about the high-beam-only inner lamps.

But wouldn't it be a good compromise to install newer H5006 halogen bulbs outbards and leave the old incandescent-type #4001 bulbs for the high-beams only. Running on high-beams would draw a total of 145 Watts. Still 5 less than with the original setup and it still provide ample candelpowers to light the road ahead at night.

Admittedly, the colors of the whiter halogen-style light and the older incandescent light would mix. But then again, when driving with high-beams on, who would notice that and even if noticed, would such looks really count? Depending on the region you live in and your driving habits, you might use high beams more or less. If you do mostly city and/or interstate driving, you probably don't need high beams too often.

 

[OneEyed]

Wasn't there a thread here with instructions on how to make your own upgraded headlight harness? Can someone please point us to it? Thanks!

 

[tbm3fan]

I used this link to start me off in making my own

http://www.dieseltruckresource.com/dev/showthread.php?t=176263