another steering gearbox thread..sorry..

[68Bigred]

Well I did something stupid I guess. I lowered the colum so I could pull the dash out the change the clock and speedometer cable . Good news clock looks great and works and no more bouncing speedometer.

So my issue. After test drive to checks speedometer when I pulled into garage there was a trail of ps fluid!! When I lowered colum I must have damaged the seal or bearing.

Now instead of pulling the box and replacing the bearing and seal I think I need a new box anyway. I can move the wheel quite a bit before the wheels move. I assume not normal or is it? All my other cars are mid rack and have 0 play. So instead of fixing mine...dare I say I want to get a ffi stage 2. Reading nightmare with the Cardone cheap ones and I want to only do it once. But the thread on here says ffi is bad. I could send mine out but really want the firmer feel on the road and who to say having mine rebuilt they will do a good job. Has anyone used the ffi recently and can recommend them? Also is play in the gearbox normal?

 

[SF-66TC]

68Bigred, if you're referring to Firm Feel in Vancouver, Washington I'm having mine rebuilt. They'll receive it Monday and hopefully I'll get it back to install by 2/27. I'll let you know. I'm checking out someone's gtx with a stage-3 later today to see which stage I want.

 

[68Bigred]

Yes and thank you! Please let me know. I'm going to pull mine out today. Reading the other thread I just a bit worried. I just want to do this once!

 

[SF-66TC]

Yes and thank you! Please let me know. I'm going to pull mine out today. Reading the other thread I just a bit worried. I just want to do this once!

I hear ya - Believe me I only wanted to do it once myself. Btw, do you have manual or power steering?

 

[68Bigred]

Power steering, hence the leak hey what socket fits in the pitman arm to gear box? I pulled the gearbox with the arm still on...

 

[68Bigred]

Well looking over this car it's a mess. Decided I'm going for it. Lca, uca, strut rods, torsion bars and everything that goes along with it. I'm not going to chase this front end around over the next few years. I'll put the new gearbox in and get it drive able but going to find a trust worthy shop to install everything else. Guess I'll order all firm feel stuff. Maybe they'll give me slight break if I basically order a new front end...

 

[SF-66TC]

Power steering, hence the leak hey what socket fits in the pitman arm to gear box? I pulled the gearbox with the arm still on...

1-15/16 Socket for the Pitman Nut

 

[SF-66TC]

Well looking over this car it's a mess. Decided I'm going for it. Lca, uca, strut rods, torsion bars and everything that goes along with it. I'm not going to chase this front end around over the next few years. I'll put the new gearbox in and get it drive able but going to find a trust worthy shop to install everything else. Guess I'll order all firm feel stuff. Maybe they'll give me slight break if I basically order a new front end...

Hey 68Bigred, You could save yourself some money if you shopped around for some of the parts and possibly even get better parts for about the same pricing as FF $650 suspension rebuild kit. I didn't need all the parts FF listed in their kit so I just got the parts that I needed. I did however got Firm Feels Tubular Upper Control Arms and did not need to get the Ball Joints and Bushings as well as the saved time refurbishing the UCA.

For the front sway bar you CANNOT replace the center bushings even though they are available from MOOG (K7061). The OEM links that hold the bushings are welded together preventing the bushing/cushion to be replaced. Even the FSM states, "The sway bar cushions are not serviced separetely. If replacement is necessary, install a new sway bar assembly." The only way I was able to replace the bushings was to get PST's 7/8" Stabilizer Link Kit. It was pricey at $75.30, but there was no other choice. The kit comes with custom links that allows one to change the bushings and is actually part of the "Rare Parts Diamond Series Kit" where all the bushings are of the highest quality. If you decide to get a kit from PST request the "Rare Parts Diamond Series" brand. PST also sources the kit from a different manufacturer and the quality of the bushings are noticeably different, so for the same price you might as well get the higher quality pieces.

I purchased my Lower Ball Joints, Strut Rod Bushings and Pitman Arm from Rare Parts @ www.shop.rareparts.com All the parts are part of the "Rare Parts Diamond Series" branding and again of much higher quality than MOOG or OEM.

Firm Feel prices their Front RCD Bilstein Shocks at $220/pair whereas PST sells them for $188/pair giving a savings is $32.

Take it from me, if you can remove and replace the steering box, you can change all these suspension components yourself and save at least $1,000 on the labor a shop would charge you. I just did mine myself and the labor cost I saved not having to pay a shop to do it, paid for half of all the parts. Also, if you do it yourself you can clean up and POR15 the entire front suspension and make it look pretty. If you pay a shop to do the work they'll only replace the parts and you'll still have a crappy looking under carriage.

It's actually pretty easy as long as you have the correct tools. Only specialty tools I got were a Ball Joint, Tie Rod and Tortion Bar removal tools that totaled about $85. I rented a Pitman removal tool from Autozone - the rental is actually FREE, you just pay for it first, but they'll refund the amount when you return it.

I got to road test a '68 GTX 4-spd with a 426 Hemi stroked to I think it was a 572 running about 700hp. The car had all new suspension bushings, a Firm Feel Front Bar and Stage-3 power steering box and it felt REALLY good - so that's what I'm going to go with for my gear box.

If you decide to take on the project yourself I'd be happy to give you some pointers and step you through along the way. I wrote down all the Torque specs & SAE socket/wrench sizes needed to do the job and provided a link below to it. On the second page I listed the parts I got, the vendors used and their pricing. I highly recommend the Diamond Series parts from Rareparts - the quality is night and day.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/433231/Torque Specs & Pricing.pdf

 

[SF-66TC]

Well looking over this car it's a mess. Decided I'm going for it. Lca, uca, strut rods, torsion bars and everything that goes along with it. I'm not going to chase this front end around over the next few years. I'll put the new gearbox in and get it drive able but going to find a trust worthy shop to install everything else. Guess I'll order all firm feel stuff. Maybe they'll give me slight break if I basically order a new front end...

Shop around and get some better parts -

Do it yourself and Save some $$$ ...

And go from this...

To looking like this...

 

[68Bigred]

Awesome thanks! Actually got yelled at by the other half. I'm not alower to spend the money right.now until after our vacation 3rd week march. For now just going to get the box and pittman arm. My front end is actually tight just looks ugly. Oh also I already have the firm feel sway bar installed. Yeah discovered the bushing issues on the oem sway bar. And it already has all new shocks and such. I just tend to go overboard as many of us do. The car actually drove fine, this all just started because of leaking seal lol. However I hate the disconnected feeling from the road. Heck I have a 94 e36 bmw I made a track car out of, just a 318is and still legal for the road. Full coil over suspension urethane bushings lowered it camber bars the works, car is slow but is a riot to drive, cars with 3x the hp can't keep up in turns. Just had this image of getting the 300 to handle maybe half as good as that bmw lol. It just those torsion bars thst bother me, and those strut rods. I guess just confused how they all come apart.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

My 2 cents, fwiw if you do a very good shake down of front suspension, spindle unloaded/weight supported on LCA and all ball joints and tie rods pitman and idler, if found good I would leave them alone but change all the bushings, LCA and UCA's these are usually bad with any time and years on them. On the sway bar I would add the urethane versions, you can change them you just need to be able to reweld the holder back together

 

[68Bigred]

I just had an alignment done a few months ago but put less then 100 miles on the car. The front end was tight and alignable. They just visually don't look great. I'm saving up to send the whole car off to restore hopefully in the next year or 2. I'll just get it diving again so I can enjoy it this summer and while it's being restored (I want the whole undercarriage done as well) I'll let them go the distance on the rest of the stuff.

 

[SF-66TC]

My 2 cents, fwiw if you do a very good shake down of front suspension, spindle unloaded/weight supported on LCA and all ball joints and tie rods pitman and idler, if found good I would leave them alone but change all the bushings, LCA and UCA's these are usually bad with any time and years on them. On the sway bar I would add the urethane versions, you can change them you just need to be able to reweld the holder back together

70bigblockdodge is absolutely correct that most of the pieces may very well be good and not need to be changed, but the UCA, LCA AND Strut Rod bushings are a MUST as those are the components most likely to go due to the fact they're just rubber. Time alone (45+ years) will disinter-grade them.

 

[SF-66TC]

My 2 cents, fwiw if you do a very good shake down of front suspension, spindle unloaded/weight supported on LCA and all ball joints and tie rods pitman and idler, if found good I would leave them alone but change all the bushings, LCA and UCA's these are usually bad with any time and years on them. On the sway bar I would add the urethane versions, you can change them you just need to be able to reweld the holder back together

70Bigblockdodge, I bow to you bruddah if you can weld that bracket back together! I carefully cut mine with a cutting wheel thinking maybe I could tac weld it back together. While trying to fit the pieces back together with the new bushings it ended up being too laborious of a job and the $75 for the kit was well worth the end result.

Try to imagine fitting the new bushing back into the "U" of the bracket (very tight fit) and compress the two cut pieces together and tac weld them while all attached to the sway bar.... I'll pay the $75 for the kit

 

[68Bigred]

Well I went cheap. I bought a box off ebay and bought the pitman arm from rare parts. With free shipping and free shipping for the core I'm going to give it a shot...famous last words. Next year when the car goes in for restoring I'll have the whole front end rebuilt. The car drove good before I damaged the box, stock one will be fine as long as it doesn't leak. I have 2k miles on the car in 3 years not like I even drive it thst much. I'm just going to clean it up nice and paint everything thst will keep me happy for now.

 

[68Bigred]

Not perfect but good for a driver. Just waiting on the box to arrive. Looks better will hold me off until she gets torn down for restore.

 

[SF-66TC]

Well I went cheap. I bought a box off ebay and bought the pitman arm from rare parts. With free shipping and free shipping for the core I'm going to give it a shot...famous last words. Next year when the car goes in for restoring I'll have the whole front end rebuilt. The car drove good before I damaged the box, stock one will be fine as long as it doesn't leak. I have 2k miles on the car in 3 years not like I even drive it thst much. I'm just going to clean it up nice and paint everything thst will keep me happy for now.

There are 4 flat key splines on the gear box's spline shaft that the Pitman arm is installed on. Because there are 4 flat keys that means the Pitman can be installed in 4 different positions. The correct flat key alignment is pretty obvious as the Pitman only rotates 180 degrees. The correct flat key will be 90 degrees of the 180 rotation and facing towards the rear of the car. When the Pitman arm is installed correctly the arm will also point towards the rear of the car.

If you got the "Diamond Series" Pitman from Rare Parts make note that it does NOT have the 4 flat key splines and therefore can be installed at any position 360 degrees on the spline shaft. BUT don't be alarmed it's easy to figure out.

On the bottom surface of the new arm running across the arms spline hole are two very obvious recessed lines dividing the spline hole in half. The two lines match the locations of two of the 4 alignment keyways (see photo below). To find the keyway location to match the CORRECT one on the spline shaft all you will need to do is count how many teeth between the two lines there are and divide the number in half - that will be where one of the other flat keyways would be. You can do the same for the other side to find the 4th flat key position, but the only keyway position you need to find would be the one where the leg of the arm points to the rear of the car.

Not perfect but good for a driver. Just waiting on the box to arrive. Looks better will hold me off until she gets torn down for restore.

Looks pretty good to me. I see you have drilled rotors too... nice!

 

[cantflip]

Not perfect but good for a driver. Just waiting on the box to arrive. Looks better will hold me off until she gets torn down for restore.

I see the jack stands in the corner... please use them... OSHA inspection failed

 

[68Bigred]

Ah. Good eye but what you didn't see are the other two not in the picture holding the car up. I always still use the jack even with stands. But excellent reminder always support your car.

 

[68Bigred]

There are 4 flat key splines on the gear box's spline shaft that the Pitman arm is installed on. Because there are 4 flat keys that means the Pitman can be installed in 4 different positions. The correct flat key alignment is pretty obvious as the Pitman only rotates 180 degrees. The correct flat key will be 90 degrees of the 180 rotation and facing towards the rear of the car. When the Pitman arm is installed correctly the arm will also point towards the rear of the car.

If you got the "Diamond Series" Pitman from Rare Parts make note that it does NOT have the 4 flat key splines and therefore can be installed at any position 360 degrees on the spline shaft. BUT don't be alarmed it's easy to figure out.

On the bottom surface of the new arm running across the arms spline hole are two very obvious recessed lines dividing the spline hole in half. The two lines match the locations of two of the 4 alignment keyways (see photo below). To find the keyway location to match the CORRECT one on the spline shaft all you will need to do is count how many teeth between the two lines there are and divide the number in half - that will be where one of the other flat keyways would be. You can do the same for the other side to find the 4th flat key position, but the only keyway position you need to find would be the one where the leg of the arm points to the rear of the car.

Looks pretty good to me. I see you have drilled rotors too... nice!

I really appreciate all you help on this! Yeah was wondering about the alignment on the rare parts pitman. I appreciate you telling me!