1969 New Yorker 727 Transmission Question

[mickfl]

Looking for advice on replacing or rebuilding my transmission.

1969 New Yorker 440 2dr 727

I am attempting an amateur restore and I'm in love with this car. I'd like to replace it myself but just looking for some advice on pros/cons and what transmission might be the best / inexpensive or if a rebuild from a local trusted shop might be a good idea?

Thanks for any help!

 

[Lefty71]

Call A&A or Cope, send them your core, and be done with it. I don't know of anyone near you, but there may be.

 

[rags]

the 727 is referred to as the bunny slope of transmission overhauls. a little courage and enough mechanical aptitude to install a door knob and you could do it yourself. get it right and you could make enough money doing them for others that you could buy a fleet of chryslers.

 

[BigblueC]

I have no idea of your mechanical ability, or what's wrong with your trans, so I suggest that you do a google search for local transmission shops and ask around you local "old car" community for recommendations. That's the best way to find out which shops are good, and more importantly, which shops to stay away from. We've had guys here recently get quotes for a complete rebuild and it seems like current pricing is around $1,500.

Personally I prefer to rebuild original parts instead of replacing with something new or reman.

 

[Chrome58]

2 years ago, the rear axle seized on my '58 Plymouth Belvedere (a guy working on it had forgot to put oil in it), resulting in a broken Torqueflite transmission (the cast iron one). I knew transmission shops were really expensive (I'm in Europe and automatic transmission are rare), so I set out to do it myself, with the help of a fellow enthousiast in France who knows Torqueflites really well.

Long story short, I did it. It took me some time, as I did carefully move one step at a time. You have to be meticulous and very thorough about that job. Use proper tools, and lots of solvent to clean everything, always. I used clear plastic boxes to stock parts. You will need also some compressed air (a small compressor will do), as cleanliness is of utmost importance.

Aside from that, it's a pretty straigthforward job.
And I enjoyed it.

Furthermore it gave me confidence in my mechanical skills.
If I could repair an automatic transmission, then I could do a lot more !

 

[CBODY67]

Key question . . . What's wrong with the trans now? Leaks, slips, etc.? Or just the suspicion of "old age"?

IF there are no significant operation issues, then a complete fluid flush/refill might be all that's needed. Possibly with a "seal conditioner" additive (or possible use of Valvoline High-Mileage ATF, which has that additive already in it), too.

THAT should be the first step to get done. While it's on the rack, then other leaks/seeps can be looked for, for diagnostics.

In general, TFs were very durable transmissions. Lasted a long time with just fluid/filter changes, by observation.

I concur that rebuilding what you've got, IF (repeat IF) necessary, is the best thing to do. Of course, due to its age (being a three-speed from the '70s), many shops might not know what to do with it OR how to best work on it. AND . . . even some stated "TF experts" are not quite so "expert" as they might proclaim, especially for a stock-oriented transmission, by observation.

So, do the fluid/filter change and see how things go. Then, for future reference, you can THEN do a casual search for a trans shop locally or in your region. In many cases, doing the simple (and least) things first can be the best . . . rather than the "get a crate replacement" orientation.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67

 

[thrashingcows]

Much like Chrome58 I redid my first 727 a few years ago....the unit in my 68 T/C wagon to be exact. ;) I had rebuilt manual transmissions but never and auto but after the quotes to rebuild it at local shops I decided to make the attempt......not too bad a job and saved myself probably close to a $750 doing it myself. Make sure you have a FSM (Factory Service Manual) and do a bunch of research on-line for tricks and helpful hints.

Ohhh and take tons of pics as the tranny comes apart....I ended up installing a couple parts backwards and didn't realize until I was looking at pics for something else and noticed what I had done.

 

[NY69]

Chrome58
thrashingcows

Was there more to it than taking the 727 apart and cleaning it?
Did you replace parts? What parts? Is there something like a 727 overhaul kit on the market?
Were there re-adjustments to do? Where did you find the specs for that?
Did you need any special equipment for that?

 

[saforwardlook]

Personally, I would recommend that the first time you rebuild an automatic Torqueflite, you have someone experienced at it take you through the process. They can point out what levels of wear are acceptable, what to look out for in specific components in terms of special adjustments, demonstrate the use of special tools such as those for compressing the clutch springs, where some critical seals/o rings are located that you could easily miss, how to hydraulically test them for proper clutch and band operation before installing, etc. I had a pro take me through one completely when I first decided to do them myself, and then it seemed not so hard. And over the years I have learned some details/adjustments that are critical to good operation. During my first few rebuilds, I followed the factory service manual for each step and then it became easier and easier. So I like to do them myself, but if you have never done one, the chances of getting everything right the first time are slim in my opinion. And unless you have a number of vehicles that need the Torqueflites rebuilt like I do, I would recommend just having an experienced technician do it for you. I also have a friend that does them for me sometimes when I am really busy and he has done scores of them for a lot of his customers and charges me $500 plus the rebuild kit for a Torqueflite.

 

[Chrome58]

Chrome58
thrashingcows

Was there more to it than taking the 727 apart and cleaning it?
Did you replace parts? What parts? Is there something like a 727 overhaul kit on the market?
Were there re-adjustments to do? Where did you find the specs for that?
Did you need any special equipment for that?

Yes I used an overhaul kit, because once you open it, some of the gaskets need to be replaced.
I also had to replace the springs in the overrunning clutch because they were broken.
Adjustements and specs are in the Factory Service Manual, but I would suggest buying a book such as this one :

 

[CBODY67]

Back in the '80s, a friend related how one of his friends had decided to rebuild the automatic in his Chevy pickup. So he pulled the trans out (without any trans jack) and then spread out an old blanket on the garage floor. As he took things apart, they were laid out in order. He got some rebuild kit items, then reassembled it in reverse order, using the new parts in place of the existing "wear parts". Got it all back together. It worked, but had a delayed engagement into D. Something his friends kidded him about.

This is not a "screwdriver and pair of pliers" type of rebuild. You'll need some tools to do it, other than a basic set. The cost of which could be an investment if you decided to do it again, but that's your judgment call. Point is, once you buy the tools and holding fixtures for the case, it will be more than just $100.00 or so. BUT if you plan to later rebuild another TF, then that is an investment rather than a way to save money (a related dynamic).

Rebuild kits are available. KEY thing is to find the one with items which are "OEM Level" or better. Many trans shops have their own specific orientatiaons on which brands might be better than others. Usually, the more expensive kits are the better ones, with better items in them. Possibly Mopar Perf has such a kit? There CAN be some big differences in the quality of the friction materials in these kits, by observation. SO, shop wisely!!! They are not all the same.

Seems like there are some small torque wrenches to do the basic set-up on band adjustments and such? Internal/external snap ring pliers of specific sizes? PLUS a suitable holding fixture for the case as you work on it.

Seems like the Clymer repair manuals have some work-arounds for some of the factory (Miller-Falls Tools, back then) special tools? BUT the FSM should be the basic resource, no matter what. The other repair manuals can have some additional information for some specialized situations/applications. Even some related product suggestions?

In some cases, just doing the initial familiarization/training can take many more hours to do that to just to the rebuild. Watching somebody well-versed in TFs can make it all look easy, due to their experience. Finding a good MENTOR can be important!

In one respect, as with my friend's friends, just taking it apart to replace gaskets, seals, and frictions, reassembling in reverse order, should work. FWIW. When it does not, knowing where to look to fix things is where the mentor comes in.

Remember the (national trans chain) tv commercial, with the guy standing there with a running water hose . . . "I always wanted to work on automatic transmissions"? DON'T be that guy.

There might even be an auto shop course at a local community college on automatic transmissions that you might take/audit BEFORE you jump off into this deal. THAT could be a good deal to investigate! Probably won't be rebuilding TFs, but other automatics, but it'll give you a general idea of what's involved and how fine the tolerances are in these mechanisms for them to work correctly and "as designed".

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Big_John]

As suggested, a good book on rebuilding will help. The FSM should be consulted too. Doing a 727 is easy, but it does involve attention to detail and a few tools. Assembling the clutch packs is the most difficult, but it can be done with a couple of c-clamps and some patience.

If you decide not to try it yourself, IMHO, it's always better to have a working transmission rebuilt by a good shop rather than take a chance on an exchange unit from any place else. You know what you have and all the components match. It's not put together from a bunch of parts scavenged from broken transmissions and put together by some people that will never see your face if it doesn't work.

 

[thrashingcows]

I replaced all the seals and gaskets, as well as all the clutches and steels, plus the two bands....go with HD off road bands, not the cheap junk they included in the kits. I also tossed in a new torque converter. A slide hammer and a custom cut piece of 6" SCH40 pipe to help assemble the clutch pack is all the "special" tools I needed.

I agree with Cbody67...I probably spent days/weeks researching, reading and watching every video I could find. Search 727, A727, A904, 904, A999, A998, A518 for videos of transmissions that are directly based on the 727, or close enough to require the same procedures.

 

[rags]

special holding fixture. should be mounted to a bench.

fixture i actually use. 20 gallon drum.

drop the unit in tail first.

 

[thrashingcows]

I used pne of those old shop work horses that you can wind one side open or closed.....worked pretty good for doing the tranny.

Like this...

 

[Big_John]

I used a couple pieces of threaded rod and some nuts and washers and attached them to the ears on the bellhousing (yellow on the pic). That let me flip it on its back so it wasn't rolling around on the bench.

 

[mickfl]

Thanks guys I'm dumb enough to try to rebuild it (armature at best) - due to time constraints I went with a local shop and they did a great job for 1100

 

[thrashingcows]

Thanks guys I'm dumb enough to try to rebuild it (armature at best) - due to time constraints I went with a local shop and they did a great job for 1100

I did the same thing with my Dana axles in my old W350 crewcab....have the knowledge and tools to do it myself but time constraints deemed that I pay someone to do it for me, tough to swallow the money I had to pay, but I did not regret it after the fact.