commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Second glance tells me they are REALLY sagging.
67' 300 Shocks
- Thread starter Cortez
- Start date
Springs and Things aka. Www.espo.com
I think she's low. Again, people don't realize until once replaced .
The 7-leaf are $310/pair. They are matched pairs and come with the front bushings pressed in. Rear shackles with bushings are $60/pair; ubolts $20/set of 4 and front eye bolts $6/pair. If you want a shipping quote let me know your zip and if you need the hardware too......It's $78.64 with everything. Total would be $498.40 and usually takes us about 10 days to get ready and ship. WOW...done deal thanks fellas...
If Chrysler would like to do rear suspension with coil over shock, i bet they would do it with 4link. But they didnt. So air shocks etc dont work like original. Springs job is to carry weight, shock job is to do limit and control body vs spring movement.
If body sacks, get new springs, if car goes like boingboingboing, get new shocks.
If body sacks, get new springs, if car goes like boingboingboing, get new shocks.
There you go.
I realize I'm using the air shocks as a Band-Aid for rear spring replacement. When I started using them in '75 on the Monaco, we didn't have Eaton Detroit Spring or know about the other pkaces that we now have to get correct springs from. The quality of spring shops still varies. By the same token, it's worked well for me. The car had rear LoadLevelers on it and it was still low!
One night, back then, I got a yard stick and measured the rear bumper height, then started at 30psi, climbed into the trunk (lid open) and rechecked the rear bumper height. I'd add 10 more psi and recheck. Deflection was the same at 30psi as it was at 75-psi. Now, as the rear suspension compresses, the air pressure will probably increase on its on, a bit, but probably not enough to really make the ride stiffer. The shock's basic "stiffness" is in the internal hydraulic valving mechanism, not in the added air pressure. They were all 1.375" pistons, whereas the LoadLevelers were 1" pistons. So you got an HD shock with the capabilities of adjusting the loaded rear suspension height.
For some, though, it was about putting too wide of a rear tire under the car and then needing to raise the rear body to clear the tires. Worked better than longer rear spring shackles. But there were other dynamics of vehicle handling which were compromised, BUT all anybody really cared about was how "tough" it looked having all of that rubber back there. "Joys of youth!"
OEM auto-leveling package air shocks work the same as the aftermarket air shocks. They just have an on-board compressor to run them via rear suspension height sensors. Some might have some OEM-specific fittings on them, but they all work the same.
IF the OEM auto-level still works, you'll not know if the rear springs are weakened with age. No bung to add or decrease the air pressure.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
One night, back then, I got a yard stick and measured the rear bumper height, then started at 30psi, climbed into the trunk (lid open) and rechecked the rear bumper height. I'd add 10 more psi and recheck. Deflection was the same at 30psi as it was at 75-psi. Now, as the rear suspension compresses, the air pressure will probably increase on its on, a bit, but probably not enough to really make the ride stiffer. The shock's basic "stiffness" is in the internal hydraulic valving mechanism, not in the added air pressure. They were all 1.375" pistons, whereas the LoadLevelers were 1" pistons. So you got an HD shock with the capabilities of adjusting the loaded rear suspension height.
For some, though, it was about putting too wide of a rear tire under the car and then needing to raise the rear body to clear the tires. Worked better than longer rear spring shackles. But there were other dynamics of vehicle handling which were compromised, BUT all anybody really cared about was how "tough" it looked having all of that rubber back there. "Joys of youth!"
OEM auto-leveling package air shocks work the same as the aftermarket air shocks. They just have an on-board compressor to run them via rear suspension height sensors. Some might have some OEM-specific fittings on them, but they all work the same.
IF the OEM auto-level still works, you'll not know if the rear springs are weakened with age. No bung to add or decrease the air pressure.
Enjoy!
CBODY67
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They came still wrapped in the factory plastic with original hardware included. As you can see in the photo below, I've removed the decals and painted them to match GG's primer red oxide underside.
These are oil charged hydraulic replacements for cars like ours back then and were designed to dampen our spring/suspensions systems properly. I'm looking forward to installing them this week, and expect them to smooth out my ride beautifully. I'll be sure to post a performance report once I give 'em a good go.
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The first replacement shocks we put on our '66 Newport were the Chrysler HD shocks, from the Chrysler parts book, in about '70. They were "MAECO" (Monroe Auto Equipment Co.) stamped and were allegedly the same as the Monroe Super 500 HD shocks of that time. They were firm, but not overly-so. By about '73, the front ones were getting soft so I got a pair of Gabriel Strider Adjustable Shocks for the front. After the initial time at the base setting, we clicked them up to the middle notch and the ride was good and it was almost impossible to bottom the front end out, unless you were doing something you shouldn't have been, on dips and such. Didn't need to touch the rear shocks.
On other forums, some have noted that the valving in currently-available C-body shocks is not the same as it used to be. More B-body than C-body, they claim. Some have claimed the KYBs are the best option when compared to the old replacement shocks we used to get.
I do know that when I got a pair of Monroe Radial-Matics for the front of my '67 Newport, they were softer than the prior Chrysler-sourced shocks on the '66 Newport. Not as firm as I desired, but "radial-tuned". Monroe, being the OEM supplier to Chrysler back then, should have been able to build a shock with appropriate valving, I suspect.
The referenced Delco shocks were probably the first low pressure "gas shock", except the gas is in a plastic bag rather than behind a floating piston in the shock body. I hope they work well!
CBODY67
On other forums, some have noted that the valving in currently-available C-body shocks is not the same as it used to be. More B-body than C-body, they claim. Some have claimed the KYBs are the best option when compared to the old replacement shocks we used to get.
I do know that when I got a pair of Monroe Radial-Matics for the front of my '67 Newport, they were softer than the prior Chrysler-sourced shocks on the '66 Newport. Not as firm as I desired, but "radial-tuned". Monroe, being the OEM supplier to Chrysler back then, should have been able to build a shock with appropriate valving, I suspect.
The referenced Delco shocks were probably the first low pressure "gas shock", except the gas is in a plastic bag rather than behind a floating piston in the shock body. I hope they work well!
CBODY67
330dTA
Senior Member
This is a shock absorber dyno sheet of an NOS Chrysler Oriflow front wheel shock absorber. As is shows, the shock has 1250Nm bounce force (compression), and 2200Nm rebounce force (extension). The character of the shock absorber is soft: the compression force comes on very slowly. - Now compare it to a Koni 80-1011 of the Koni Classic series (a shock absorber which is very similar to the obsolete Koni # 80-1742):
Surprisingly, the compression force is less than in the Oriflow, here showing only 750Nm, but the character is different: in the Koni, the full force comes on almost immediately - therefore it feels taut in the car. The decompression force of the Koni is slightly less than in the Oriflow, too, being around 2000Nm. The decompression curve of the Koni is very similar to the Oriflow.
According to the Koni technician, both are excellent shock absorbers, although very different in character, the Oriflow being more comfort-oriented.
I have somewhere a test sheet for the KYB Gas-A-Just, too, only I can't find it right now. The test numbers however were 900Nm compression, 1000Nm decompression, which already tells it is a second-rate product compared to these two.
78Brougham
"Chump"
People are not understanding how these Monroe air adjustable shocks work.
They are not (!!) suitable for returning a car to a proper stance when the leaf springs are sagging from age.
The stiffness of the air shock is NOT constant throughout the change in its length. The more you add air, i.e. raise or lengthen the MONROE air shock, the STIFFER the shock. Stiffer!
The purpose of Monroe air shocks is to raise the car when there is EXTRA weight pressing down on the shock causing the *** to drag. Then pumping up the Monroe shocks to normalize the ride height is counterbalanced by the extra weight to normalize the ride.
Pumping up the shocks to normalize the height due to weak springs turns the ride into being that of a Conestoga wagon.
As far as the OEM air shocks, that's Apples and Oranges. Totally different in function and purpose. The ride height is MAINTAINED by height sensors.
The stiffness of the factory air shocks is tuned to give a normal ride height with good springs.
Add weight, the *** then sags, the sensors add more air to the shock and the the stiffness of the ride is the same as the shocks with less air and no extra load. In other words, Normal.
If you feel the ride is acceptable to YOU by pumping in air to the Monroes to counteract saggy springs, fine. You'd also be happy in an unloaded F- 450. Not me.
And I bet you still put wooden clothes pins on your fuel line to prevent vapor lock.
Says you. What's the difference if I put the air in them or the "magic sensor" does it. In case you never had a car with the factory load lever, the magic sensor is nothing more than a lever arm that triggers the vacuum operated pump. It's mounted between the spring axle mounting plate and the body. The more fatties you put in the back the more the pump, pumps up the shocks. What's the difference. Mine is manual, the factory's was automatic. Except that after 40 years the factory system **** the bed and could cause engine performance issues because it runs on vacuum and it's impossible to find the oem shocks.
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
You're talking to a man who has a ton of miles under his belt with air ride suspension. Just throwing that out there.
Now follow this closely...
If the springs are sagging and you put in air shocks, you are pumping in more air than you would have to pump in to make up for the sagging.
Put those air shocks in a car with good springs, you need less air to ride level.
Over inflated shocks to ride level with no extra load rides like a buckboard.
Now....
The automatic air shocks will also produce a hard ride if the springs are soft.
Stop equating ride height with ride hardness without taking both the condition of the spring and the weight on them.
Air shocks with weak springs ride like a solid axle when pumped to normal ride height.
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78Brougham
"Chump"
You're car seems a little low in the back.... maybe you need air shocks 
Unfortunately, my air-shocked/sagged rear springs '70 Monaco Brougham (DH43N0D) never did ride rough, or any rougher than any other Chrysler with rear HD shocks. Even with 60psi in them, which is what it took to level the car with the front end at the normal ride height. Those are my experiences over about 80K miles and two pairs of Gabriel HiJackers. BTAIM
CBODY67
CBODY67
THANKS for posting those shock dyno curves. Haven't seen anything like that since the CAR AND DRIVER shock test in about 1976!
I like Konis, big time. It was said that the honcho at Koni drive Chryslers, in the '60s and such, so the Chrysler shocks were dialed-in a little better than some of their other applications might have been. Although they ALL are better than anybody else's shocks are.
Konis are also adjustable on rebound only. I suspect those dyno curves are for the Konis at the "base" setting? Where can I get some for my Chryslers?
CBODY67
commando1
Old Man with a Hat
Well, yah, my *** is sagging but insurance won't cover it, so...You're car seems a little low in the back.... maybe you need air shocks
330dTA
Senior Member
You are welcome. Yes, the Koni settings were the base settings. According to the Koni technician who did these tests for me, that particular Koni (#80-1011) can be adjusted so that the decompression force almost doubles. That is to say, grows from 2000Nm to close to 4000Nm.
You can buy a set of #80-1011 at any good parts supplier. It’s on production, as it’s a Porsche 356 rear shock. Only you need some manufacturing skills to modify it for a C-body: the bottom bushing has to be changed (piece of cake?) and the top eyelet will have to be cut off, to be replaced with a suitable bolt. If you are a good welder, it’s no problem.
78Brougham
"Chump"
78Brougham
"Chump"
I'm not so sure it would be such a good idea to be cutting and welding on any shocks. For one, the shocks are under pressure and two, you may take the temper out of the steel. I'm not sure what the build process is but sounds like trouble to me. To me you'd be better off to find the right shocks for the car, would be the safest route. IMHO
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