78 NYer "Kinda"- So it begins...

71NewYorkMan

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First off- I am not typically one to name my cars. The credit for this one goes to 75LandYacht when he posted the car " for sale". Turns out, "Kinda" loosely translates from Arabic for "Pretty Woman". Will this car ever be beautiful again? We shall see............

This is the first chapter of my '78 New Yorker project. "Kinda" was recently purchased from a Washington state owner. He had purchased it from the original titled elderly gentleman owner 11 years previously. As the seller never put plates on it, I am only the second titled owner.

https://www.forcbodiesonly.com/mopar-forum/threads/78-nyb-sunroof-car-kinda.47620/
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The car is now in Georgia.
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The car does run and stop as advertised. Most power options are working! (Including the power antenna and 8 track radio). Not working are the cornering lamps and deck lid release. Someone previously started to replace the LeanBurn system with a points distributor ignition system. This was a hack job! I have started to install an OEM type Electronic Ignition system. The OEM LeanBurn carb was previously exchanged for a '76 model ThermoQuad with the necessary ports for a vacuum advance distributor. I have not finished surveying the AutoTempII AC, as the vacuum system is down due to the hacked LeanBurn conversion. The system does appear to have a slight refrigerant charge. One interesting option I found is the Auto Height control.
Rust is minimal- The rear quarters are rusted through, though the extensions are solid. Trunk floor, interior floor, rockers, inner fenders, and all exterior metal are solid. I did find a lot of surface rust inside the cowl.
The wiper motor works, but the wiper arms do not sweep. Wonder what that may be? (Just kidding- I know the bushing is shot).

The biggest surprise ( and disappointment) so far is the roof. I took an interest in this car thinking that the sliding soft sun roof would be a novelty if I could get it cleaned up and functional.
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This is not to be. The sunroof mechanism is corroded shut, and the installation has resulted in much underlying corrosion of the roof. The installers removed the OEM vinyl top and installed a faux convertible top to augment the Britax sunroof. The underlying foam padding has acted as a sponge to hold water and corrode the roof.
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The disappointment in the roof is due to the fact that this car left the factory with a power sunroof as evidenced by the M51 code on the fender tag. This is confirmed by the American Sunroof envelope in the glovebox and driver door decal. In the late '70's through early '90's faux roof conversions were popular, but I would have liked the car as delivered from the factory.

This car may become a parts car after I rip the faux top off. For now, I will continue my attempt to return it to a driveable condition. If the roof is repairable, I am mulling over the idea of fitting a 2005-10 Chrysler 300 power sunroof in conjunction with a new vinyl roof. I can't restore the original power sunroof, but if I can "update" with newer Mopar parts I can retain the spirit of the fender tag.
 
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I addressed the roof in the other thread. Strip everything off the roof. Close the roof with a metal patch and get a new vinyl top from SMS and cover it up.
 
Close the roof with a metal patch
Closing the hole will essentially require replacing the entire roof from A to C pillar (maybe). I found many soft patches and "crunchy" metal areas during my "thump" test on the roof in conjunction with the visible damage evidenced in the photos. I am trying to maintain enthusiam by getting the car to a drivable state. The survey (and story) is just beginning.....
 
Closing the hole will essentially require replacing the entire roof from A to C pillar (maybe). I found many soft patches and "crunchy" metal areas during my "thump" test on the roof in conjunction with the visible damage evidenced in the photos. I am trying to maintain enthusiam by getting the car to a drivable state. The survey (and story) is just beginning.....

Good luck!

:thumbsup:
 
Closing the hole will essentially require replacing the entire roof from A to C pillar (maybe). I found many soft patches and "crunchy" metal areas during my "thump" test on the roof in conjunction with the visible damage evidenced in the photos. I am trying to maintain enthusiam by getting the car to a drivable state. The survey (and story) is just beginning.....
:welcome: I see that you found the place long ago, but since you were a mute for most of that time... you just another FNG from where I stand... :lol:

A ballsy move to buy and ship that poor car, and it seems that you're finding the things wrong that many of us suspected would be wrong. Good on you for trying though. I'm going to do something I wouldn't often do, especially for an FNG... I'll offer some crappy sheet metal if you want it to try to fix what's left of the roof. I cut up a parts car a while back and made the roof into pickup bed sized pieces, my only concern was having the ability to repair the windshield channels and have patch material for my other parts car. I haven't gotten as far as I'd like with that, and don't really want rid of it all, but id donate some sheet metal to this cause if it helps you.

As to the idea of grabbing a late model sunroof... at the point you're at, you could fabricate a steel dunce cap for the car and nobody could say that you did her wrong. She's toast.

Here's a stupid thought, Find a late 90's MB M-class with the lamella roof, it a complicated POS and a lot of effort would be involved... but it would give you a good roof with the feel of the one you purchased...
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The hard panels could look pretty good and hold up to use if you keep it properly lubed. The roof on your car would need serious body work just to look good with vinyl to hide bodywork... let alone paint and steel... so why not go all out? This roof wasn't super common, but the trucks are valueless heaps in junkyards for the most part... grab the vin number and it will be pretty easy, if expensive, to buy parts through a dealer... they continue to supply old parts, even if they make you wait for them. Get the remains of the headliner too, if nothing else, it will serve as a pattern and may be useful creating something custom an new.
 
Well congratulations sir.. I’m flattered on the honorable mention. Thank You Sir. I feel your pain regarding your new acquisition, I too had some surprises when my 77 Sunroof showed up. BUT! Our love for these cars is sometimes blinded. I’m certainly going to follow your thread on her progress.. keep us posted..
 
Back then, sun/moon roofs were a high-luxury item that many didn't want to deal with. ONE detraction of them, to me, was the loss of otherwise ample headroom in the front seat. About an inch or more, by observation. Encroached upon the spatiousness of the general C-body experience.

BUT a sunroof is much more than just a moveable metal piece of roof real estate. There's the other pieces that move it along its tracks, which complete the "cassettself, which is attached to the car. THEN, EACH corner has a drain tube for any water which might get past the outer weatherstrrip/glass edge seals! One for each of the front A-pillars and the rear C-pillars. The front ones might drain into the cowl and then out the cowl drain as the rear ones will have tube mechanisms that go to each of the rear wheel housings for direct drains.

I was not aware of Chrysler sending all of its completed vehicles to an American Sunroof facility for conversion after they were built. Or perhaps "the supplier" had their literature ("care and feeding" manual?) placed in the glove box materials at the assembly plant? Don't know why as most of the sunroof operation would be covered in the owner's manual? In any case, they wer factory options.

The modern (LH car forward) factory sunroofs don't encroach on the headroom nearly as much. With appropriate fabrication and sealing, they might work pretty well IF the roof contours are close enough for that to happen, between your car and the newer ones. Has to be EXACT if it's going to look well. Which can take a huge amount of time and effort. AND cost.

The existing fabric roof was similar to some factory "alternatives" that Buick used on some of their "Sun Coupe" Skylarks in the earlier '70s. In your case, more universal than not, though.

In those earlier times, factory sunroofs were usually "painful" to deal with. Few people knew how to work on them. Water leaks did happen, possibly due to poor materials and sealing, compared to later times? Maybe even some motor issues? Then came T-tops and we could see where everything was happening! Water leaks as they happened, too! End result was that factory power sunroofs were more of a luxury novelty than of real benefit for ventilation or "sun exposure" as in a convertible. Although many import brands had had "hand-crank" sunroofs for years, which worked well and were relatively easy to work on. FEW of those cars had any sort of factory/aftermarket air conditioning, though. Be that as it may.

Rather than do the sheet metal fix, you might have the option to become more creative? After you get all of the factory vinyl roof fabric stripped off, which will probably reveal more rust issues under it, then you might be able to better assess the issue of what to do with the hole in the roof. Possibly clean it up around the edges, put some reinforcement around the edges (tacked or "structural adhesive'd" from the underside, and then clean the metal to a more uniform shape. Then get a piece of optical-grade industrial Lexan cut to fit. Install it with a "lace-in" windshield-style weatherstrip (circa '70 GM pickup truck style, windshield or back window). Once installed, then put a bead of flexible sealer around the outer edge on the top side for water sealing. The result might be not unlike the original Ford Crown Victoria or Mercury Sun Valley models from the middle '50s.

Then, you can get some thin paper board and make a sun shield, attached with Velcro spots.

How well it looks might be dependent upon the level of execution.

Then, otherwise, once the hole in the roof is fixed, the other rust repairs can be "normal" in scope.

I suspect the quarter panel issues are due to water leaks from the second roof installation? Just normal rust repair in that area, I suspect. The deep lower pockets on each side of the trunk floor are great places to store stuff and collect water, more than the prior generations of C-body cars. There should be some plastic drain plugs on their inner sides, too. Once fixed, seal it all up, inside especially.

I commend you on trying to save the car and make something nicer of it! When done, it can be a decent vehicle to drive and enjoy. Only thing is the related cost to do so, unfortunately.

Best of luck,
CBODY67
 
you just another FNG from where I stand...
True. In the shadows been I since 2012. Into the light have I stepped since this car purchased. Learned much, I have, while quietly observing.... Now time to act with the force..... (Sorry- I like Yoda).

I thank you for your offer for the roof, and may very well take you up on your offer. I was planning on going to AMSNOS north of Atlanta to snoop around. When the time comes to get serious about the roof, I will confer with you. I'm a fan of bartering....

If savable, the present top would have been a novelty. Faced with major repairs, My preference will be to return the car to its "as built" status. Closing the hole with factory tin and applying a new vinyl top would be relatively easy. What's intriguing now is the M51 code on the fender tag. I like open air cars. If I can make the 300 power sunroof work, then that is how I will proceed. If I find the A and C pillars and window frames badly corroded, that would be the deciding factor in parting this car out.

I was not aware of Chrysler sending all of its completed vehicles to an American Sunroof facility
I was surprised by this as well. I've seen several references to this topic here and on the Drydock. The discovery of evidence in my formal confirms it. The door decal is completely faded, but it looks just like the one that was on my 77 Cordoba, which went to ASC for the T-Top installation.
ASC History
 
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With appropriate fabrication and sealing, they might work pretty well IF the roof contours are close enough for that to happen, between your car and the newer ones.
I've already looked at 300's in the boneyard. The contours are very similar!
 
I was surprised by this as well. I've seen several references to this topic here and on the Drydock. The discovery of evidence in my formal confirms it. The door decal is completely faded, but it looks just like the one that was on my 77 Cordoba, which went to ASC for the T-Top installation.
ASC History

All of the T-top cars did got to authorized ASC centers for conversion. Getting the car to a regional center was a part of the delivery instructions from the factory to the dealer, who took possession of the converted cars, when done. Liberal use of masking take on the cut lines of the roof protected the factory finish during the conversion. The interiors were gutted, too, as a re-bar brace was placed into the sun visor mounting holes and into other holes in the rear roof structure, for support of the body while the roof was being cut and before any additional inner structure was added. PLUS the "bumpers" in the door frame.

Enjoy!
CBODY67
 
I was surprised by this as well. I've seen several references to this topic here and on the Drydock. The discovery of evidence in my formal confirms it. The door decal is completely faded, but it looks just like the one that was on my 77 Cordoba, which went to ASC for the T-Top installation.

All of my previous Mopars including my current '78 New Yorker St Regis Coupe and '79 Dodge Magnum GT came from ASC. Are you sure CBODY67 they all did not come from ASC?
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All C-body sunroofs are the same. They all used the same parts.
I suspected as much, from comparing service procedures in the '71 and '78 FSM. I hadn't compared parts lists to confirm. If putting the original OEM sunroof back in becomes an option due to some stroke of good luck, I would consider that as well.
 
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