'B' ENGINE MANIFOLD AND CARBS

[Corbin]

School me on carburetors and 4 barrel manifolds for 'B' engines.

I have a '64 Custom 880 that I'm working on getting into prime daily driver shape. It's a pretty well optioned car, so the base 361 could have been upgraded to a 383. And it's time for a carb rebuild. Rather than rebuild the stock 2bbl, I'd like to rebuild a 4bbl. And swap out the manifold. I prefer 'stock' over aftermarket; I don't need raw aluminum or chrome. I'd like it to look like it would look if it left the factory in that configuration.

If it were a top of the line Polara it would have a manifold p/n 220 5968...topped of with a Carter AFB 3611S (2463073).
Is that the combination I should be hunting for? Or would a later manifold (p/n 2806301) be suitable? The car has factory air...and I don't wish to have to hunt down different bracketry.

What about carbs? What's the difference between a Carter 3615S (Chrysler 413) 3611S. Or the Imperial variant? FWIW I have a carb for a 426 SW I could rebuild and run with the appropriate manifold.

Educate me.

 

[1970FuryConv]

I'm sure others will chime in, but overall I would stay conservative. Dual-plane manifold, 650cfm size limit for carb. 361 does not have a lot of options to increase power.

Edelbrock is a good source of info. Their aftermarket dual-plane manifold fits 361-400, so it fits early and later B-blocks. Thus later B-block factory 4-barrel intake manifolds would work. Of course, others can comment about optimal port matching, but for a stock 361 that may not be a big issue.
Edelbrock 7186: Performer RPM 383 Intake Manifold BB-Chrysler " B" 361-400ci - JEGS

I like the Edelbrock 650cfm AVS2 for a B-block. If you got something factory in that cfm range, it could work. @Dana rebuilds carbs.
Edelbrock 19069 Edelbrock AVS2 Series Carburetors | Summit Racing

If you want to use factory 2-pivot linkage, you need to have a welder reconfigure the upper rod that runs parallel to the intake.

 

[Lefty71]

The progression of manifolds in stock form is really about the carb used more than flow. The 2806301 you mentioned may be nearly the best, if not the best flowing iron factory intake they made for 1-4bbl. It was used in the late '60's on 383HP engines. But since there is a progression from AFB, to square Holley and AVS, and then to Thermoquad carbs with different bolt patterns, I don't think any of your AFB's will fit on it??? There are minor differences in the AFB carbs between flow and overall fuel usage. Others will tell you there are many better performance options in the aftermarket world (and there are lol), but if this intake/carb swap is the extent of your performance upgrade for a stock old motor, then you are already on the path to a solid minor factory looking upgrade with any early factory iron intake that will fit the AFB, and the Street Wedge carb properly rebuilt to factory specs.

Here's a list of the carb applications. Most that you are going to find will be ~600cfm. 500 to 750 cfm is possible, and the later AVS carbs were up to 800cfm, but you are going to want to stay around 600 max for a stock 361.

https://www.hemmings.com/partslocator/carburetors.html

 

[CBODY67]

You also need to consider that the baseplate bolt patterns changed in 1968, to the what I term "Holley" size, which is larger than the AFBs used. So if you use a later model (later 1960s) intake, your 426SW carb might not fit as a "bolt-on" item.

Another consideration is the throttle linkage, which I seem to recall "pushes" rather than "pulls" as the 1965 linkages do. So verify that issue, just to make sure.

As to intake manifolds, I'd prefer something NOT made of cast iron. Reason? WEIGHT hoisting that thing over the fender and onto the engine valley! Much easier with an aluminum manifold. Chrysler put a factory part number on the Edelbrock DP4B aluminum intake in 1968, so it could be used in the srock classes at the drag races . . .to great success as I understand it. Some of those still surface from time to time. The later Edelbrock Performer intakes could well be a more evolved version of that, but with some extra holes for possible EGR use and such. Desert Turquoise engine paint covers that aluminum up quite nicely, if desired.

You will ALSO need a 4bbl air cleaner. One of the '68 Road Runner repro air cleaners (from Mopar Perf) might work well, but with normal "air cleaner black" satin paint on it rather than the crinkle paint they come with. Your judgment call on the paint issue.

The AFBs back then used the smaller OEM AFB size air cleaner "hole". Aftermarket AFBs and AVS will have the larger "Holley" hole, which started in 1968, unless you can find a factory air cleaner from a '67 NY which had a 440 and Holley on it from the factory.

It could well be that your 426SW carb might be a nice size upgrade. You can check the metering rod and jetting in the FSM carb specs for that carb and then compare them to a similar 361 4bbl for your car. Carter built a "Strip Kit" of a selection of jets, rods, power piston springs, and such for drag racing. Not unlike the current Edelbrock item, which probably should do the same thing. Available from Jegs or Summit.

But a main thing would be to first decide which style of throttle linkage is on the car AND how the various linkage adapters in the Edelbrock catalog might be needed with your carb of choice (especially an aftermarket carb).

On a 361, you might discover that the factory carb for the 4bbl was closer to 500 cfm than 600cfm, as Chrysler was still building "torque" motors back then. So a 650 cfm would be the MAXX size, to me. The noted AVS2 approx 600cfm might work better than anything we had back then, but with the electric choke, have to hide that extra wiring for that, which is NOT hard to do. Just snake it across the cowl with other wires, then head it down the rh valve cover with the wiring going to the distributor, with an obscure little length that heads to the elec choke. Maybe even choose "black" for that wire? Or paint the insulation going to the connector, or wrap it in black electrical tape? Several options.

You might also find an OEM-style AFB fuel line in one of the repro fuel line vendors. Probably just need the line between the fuel filter and the carb?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67

 

[Fireflite56]

If you want to stay with stock stuff, I believe I have a correct 4 bbl intake and possibly even carb (needing to be rebuilt). Send me a pm if you're interested in going that route.

P.S. My ability to check messages may be limited for the next week as I will be traveling to Hershey, PA for the Chrysler 300 Club International convention.

 

[furious70]

I wouldn't personally mess with the early years small throat stuff. Upgrade to 68+ parts or don't bother, nobody has made small throat stuff fort decades

 

[Corbin]

Thanks all for the great feedback. I tend to live in the less is more camp, and my end goal is reliability and drivability. The 4bbl, electronic ignition and dual exhaust are the only underhood changes to this car. I'm not opposed to aftermarket (I really like the idea of the aluminum OEM/edelbrock manifold). What I don't want is to have to start kludging together A/c brackets, throttle linkage and air cleaners. There also a ~7/16 inch height difference between the pre '68 and post '68 manifolds.

The going rate for the aluminum manifolds seems to ~$375 on ebay. (Complete with helicoil repairs!!) Seems silly when a new version can be had for 50 bucks more.

If I'm not mistaken, the opening for the AFB matches the 2BL version (ATB?), so I can just use the OEM air cleaner. The drivers side ac bracket ties into the manifold mounting bolt. So I'm covered there. Passenger side ties into a boss that looks present on some later manifolds.

 

[Toolmanmike]

I would stay with a stock manifold that will work with A/C. Some Aftermarket ones may not.

 

[Bullitt]

I have a 65 Coronet with 2bbl 361 with AC. I also have a 2205968 4bbl manifold I’d like to use. Would like a new carb for it, will the Edelbrock 1406 fit that intake?

 

[Lefty71]

I believe it would...funny how specs can be hard to find on brand new stuff.... The only critical dimensions for you are the c-c to the bolt mounts and the throat bores for the carb. Since you already know those dimensions if you have the manifold in hand, a quick call to Edelbrock before you spend $400 would be a good idea. It's a 60's type replacement carb, I think you are gonna be fine.....but you may need the Mopar type kickdown/throttle adapter if not included, and you'll need to pull 12 volts (key switched) for the choke.

 

[CBODY67]

I suspect that as the carb has 8 stud holes in the baseplate, it will fit both the small pattern and the later (and larger) "Holley pattern" intakes. From 1968 and later, all Chrysler square-bore intakes were the larger "Holley pattern" (what I termed it when they were different).

 

[Bullitt]

I suspect that as the carb has 8 stud holes in the baseplate, it will fit both the small pattern and the later (and larger) "Holley pattern" intakes. From 1968 and later, all Chrysler square-bore intakes were the larger "Holley pattern" (what I termed it when they were different).

Yes, it does. I want to retain the AC compressor. I’ll have to check it out today

 

[CBODY67]

On my '67 383 w/factory a/c, the rear compressor mounts to the two front intake manifold bolts. That's the ONLY place it touches the intake manifold. Is your a/c factory?

CBODY67