Header Recommendations?

[perrodeltetcho]

Hey there everyone! I've been looking into some new headers for my '77 Plymouth Gran Fury 400cid, but headers that match up on sites like JEGS, Summit, and Hedman are few and far between. Was curious if anyone had some direct recommendations, or some to look out for that fit but aren't a "direct match" within websites like these. Would appreciate any help!

 

[Boydsdodge]

TTI. I have installed many TTI exhaust systems. Do a search for discussions on here about exhaust.

 

[perrodeltetcho]

TTI. I have installed many TTI exhaust systems. Do a search for discussions on here about exhaust.

I've just looked through here but the latest C body they carry parts for is '74.

 

[Big_John]

Hey there everyone! I've been looking into some new headers for my '77 Plymouth Gran Fury 400cid, but headers that match up on sites like JEGS, Summit, and Hedman are few and far between. Was curious if anyone had some direct recommendations, or some to look out for that fit but aren't a "direct match" within websites like these. Would appreciate any help!

While opinions vary on the use of headers, consider finding a set of the high performance exhaust manifolds instead.

My reasoning is that unless you have done some mods already, you have a low compression "smog" motor. IMHO, adding headers to that isn't going to buy you much, if any. The manifolds with a good dual exhaust may be a better choice.... Plus, headers can be a pain in the ***.... Harder to change starters, leaks, less ground clearance etc. Manifolds are kind of install and forget about it.

That's my opinion.... Now, if you want to do some major changes to the engine then the headers may make more sense... They'll still can be a PITA and I speak from experience as I've had them on a few cars (not C-bodies).

 

[413]

Does the car park inside a dry garage or outside. Awfully wet in your area, about 14 days away from the rainy season that lasts 6 months. LOL. The headers will rust out a lot quicker if car is parked outside. Get a set that is coated inside and out.

 

[perrodeltetcho]

Does the car park inside a dry garage or outside. Awfully wet in your area, about 14 days away from the rainy season that lasts 6 months. LOL. The headers will rust out a lot quicker if car is parked outside. Get a set that is coated inside and out.

I do have a cover, but it is outside. Very good advice, thank you!

 

[CBODY67]

THE reason they only list 1974 as the last year is that 1975 was the first year for cat converters! ONLY the 360HO, 400HO, and 440 police cars got dual exhausts and dual cat converters, as everything else was single exhaust w/cat converter.

YET, the 1974 body platform was used until the end of the 1978 model year, in C-bodies. Which means all of the underbody dimensions and contours are the same, or very similar.

@Big_John, myself, and others lived in earlier times where the common "headers" were thinner and flimsier (in all respects), which meant they were noisier (than the more expensive thick-gauge-metal headers, the common header gasket would "blow out" as soon as the flange warped/got loose, from the cheap bolts. Now, the metal gauge and flanges are much better, high-heat reinforced header gaskets are more available, and special header bolts have locks on them to keep them tight. Much quieter now!

Doing headers is just the FIRST part of the journey! From there, the pipe behind them! As @Big_John mentions, if your engine is still pretty stock and has the stock compression ratio. the best option would be a set of dual exhausts to replace the existing single exhaust. Check your state's laws on catalytic converters, too! Some consider them as a part of the exh system as others consider them emissions control devices.

Although you might get sticker shock when looking at the price of the TTI headers and dual exhaust kit, BUT it is not that much more than what some muffler shops (prices and quality VARY!!) might charge for doing the exhaust and you doing the headers . . . individually.

PLUS, I just like bolt-together exh systems (as the OEMs did back then), held together with clamps rather than needing a torch/welder to install things with. That's just me.

Otherwise, get a 1/8" wide black plastic wire tie and loop in around the slot in the transmission throttle rod (at the back lower corner of the slot) and also realize that "Idle to WOT tromps" are NOT the best way to launch a 4500lb car with highway gears in the back from a dead stop.

Appreciate the car for its interior comfort, smoothness, and huge trunk. It will never be a Hellcat Challenger and all that implies. It might be the size of many full-size SUVs, but will ride much better than all of them combined, by observation.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[perrodeltetcho]

THE reason they only list 1974 as the last year is that 1975 was the first year for cat converters! ONLY the 360HO, 400HO, and 440 police cars got dual exhausts and dual cat converters, as everything else was single exhaust w/cat converter.

YET, the 1974 body platform was used until the end of the 1978 model year, in C-bodies. Which means all of the underbody dimensions and contours are the same, or very similar.

@Big_John, myself, and others lived in earlier times where the common "headers" were thinner and flimsier (in all respects), which meant they were noisier (than the more expensive thick-gauge-metal headers, the common header gasket would "blow out" as soon as the flange warped/got loose, from the cheap bolts. Now, the metal gauge and flanges are much better, high-heat reinforced header gaskets are more available, and special header bolts have locks on them to keep them tight. Much quieter now!

Doing headers is just the FIRST part of the journey! From there, the pipe behind them! As @Big_John mentions, if your engine is still pretty stock and has the stock compression ratio. the best option would be a set of dual exhausts to replace the existing single exhaust. Check your state's laws on catalytic converters, too! Some consider them as a part of the exh system as others consider them emissions control devices.

Although you might get sticker shock when looking at the price of the TTI headers and dual exhaust kit, BUT it is not that much more than what some muffler shops (prices and quality VARY!!) might charge for doing the exhaust and you doing the headers . . . individually.

PLUS, I just like bolt-together exh systems (as the OEMs did back then), held together with clamps rather than needing a torch/welder to install things with. That's just me.

Otherwise, get a 1/8" wide black plastic wire tie and loop in around the slot in the transmission throttle rod (at the back lower corner of the slot) and also realize that "Idle to WOT tromps" are NOT the best way to launch a 4500lb car with highway gears in the back from a dead stop.

Appreciate the car for its interior comfort, smoothness, and huge trunk. It will never be a Hellcat Challenger and all that implies. It might be the size of many full-size SUVs, but will ride much better than all of them combined, by observation.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

That makes so much more sense! Thank you. A full exhaust kit would be ideal, as this car is from Wisconsin originally and has more holes in the exhaust than some of the cheese from it's home state. Unfortunately, the kit I'm seeing on TTI is for a 73. Would that work fine? Perhaps with some small modifications? Thanks for the help!

 

[Big_John]

@Big_John, myself, and others lived in earlier times where the common "headers" were thinner and flimsier (in all respects), which meant they were noisier (than the more expensive thick-gauge-metal headers,

Yep, there were two types of street headers... Good ones and cheap ones. The good ones were Hookers and the cheapest, worst were Doug Thorleys. They'd last maybe a year or two before they would rust through or bottom out... Worst was train tracks as the cheap ones fit more cars, so they hung down more.

The Hookers were thicker tube with thicker flanges. Even the collector was longer. Much better welding too. The Doug Thorley and Hedman headers had horrible welding. The Hookers were over twice as much in cost.

Things have changed though and now the companies that sold the cheap headers don't sell the crap they used to.

I had a set of Stahl headers on my race car. Those were $400+ back in the late 70's... but boy they were nice.

 

[Big_John]

That makes so much more sense! Thank you. A full exhaust kit would be ideal, as this car is from Wisconsin originally and has more holes in the exhaust than some of the cheese from it's home state. Unfortunately, the kit I'm seeing on TTI is for a 73. Would that work fine? Perhaps with some small modifications? Thanks for the help!

Chances are they will... but it's not like it's cheap to try. A call to TTI may help.

 

[perrodeltetcho]

Chances are they will... but it's not like it's cheap to try. A call to TTI may help.

Good plan!

 

[496 polara]

I don't like the Tti C body headers as the 1 7/8 primaries are too big for a HEAVY car with anything near a stock motor and freeway gears. I went through that with my Polara and a 496 c.i. stroked 440.

Unless you are hot rodding the thing a good dual exhaust from the manifolds back will save you a lot of $$$ and headaches.

That being said I like the Hooker Super Comp c body headers with a 1 3/4 primary.I don't know if they work on the later year cars though.

https://www.holley.com/products/exhaust/headers_and_exhaust_manifolds/all_headers/parts/5113HKR

I would also consider the Schumacher Creative services headers with their pipe adapters to connect to the exhaust.

B/RB Tri-Y Headers

 

[perrodeltetcho]

I don't like the Tti C body headers as the 1 7/8 primaries are too big for a HEAVY car with anything near a stock motor and freeway gears. I went through that with my Polara and a 496 c.i. stroked 440.

Unless you are hot rodding the thing a good dual exhaust from the manifolds back will save you a lot of $$$ and headaches.

That being said I like the Hooker Super Comp c body headers with a 1 3/4 primary.I don't know if they work on the later year cars though.

https://www.holley.com/products/exhaust/headers_and_exhaust_manifolds/all_headers/parts/5113HKR

I would also consider the Schumacher Creative services headers with their pipe adapters to connect to the exhaust.

B/RB Tri-Y Headers

Thanks for the recommendation! Out of curiosity, what do you mean "too big for a heavy car"?

 

[496 polara]

The larger the primary tube diameter the more it hurts low end torque. Larger tubes are recommended for higher HP applications,lighter cars with lower rear end gears,and drag racing applications where the engine turns higher rpm's and stays there longer.

The engine needs to breathe but too big of a pipe can actually hurt low speed torque.

 

[perrodeltetcho]

The larger the primary tube diameter the more it hurts low end torque. Larger tubes are recommended for higher HP applications,lighter cars with lower rear end gears,and drag racing applications where the engine turns higher rpm's and stays there longer.

The engine needs to breathe but too big of a pipe can actually hurt low speed torque.

Oh I get what you're saying. Thanks!

 

[CBODY67]

Just as a smaller intake port can result in higher flow velocities at low-to-midrange rpms (which can put more a/r charge into the cyl), larger ports and valves result in lower port velocities at the same rpm, so a bit less filling effect. Smaller port flows can also be a tuning tool to modulate a too-wild cam, too, which can extend the torque curve a bit as total top-end horsepower is "strangled" a bit.

Same on the exhaust side. The smaller header pipes will mean better scavenging at lower rpms, which also makes more torque in those rpm levels. This has been proven many times on the drag strip, for decades. "Too much" header does not usually result in faster 1/4 mile ETs, even with the stronger "top end rush" as it took too long to get through the lower-rpm "soft spot" in the power band.

With highway gears, you need "a torque motor that rpms", rather than heading for 5500rpm peak horsepower. "Torque" is what initially moves the car and happens on part-throttle acceleration on the highway. As "horsepower" is only at or near its peak amount at the higher rpms.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[perrodeltetcho]

Just as a smaller intake port can result in higher flow velocities at low-to-midrange rpms (which can put more a/r charge into the cyl), larger ports and valves result in lower port velocities at the same rpm, so a bit less filling effect. Smaller port flows can also be a tuning tool to modulate a too-wild cam, too, which can extend the torque curve a bit as total top-end horsepower is "strangled" a bit.

Same on the exhaust side. The smaller header pipes will mean better scavenging at lower rpms, which also makes more torque in those rpm levels. This has been proven many times on the drag strip, for decades. "Too much" header does not usually result in faster 1/4 mile ETs, even with the stronger "top end rush" as it took too long to get through the lower-rpm "soft spot" in the power band.

With highway gears, you need "a torque motor that rpms", rather than heading for 5500rpm peak horsepower. "Torque" is what initially moves the car and happens on part-throttle acceleration on the highway. As "horsepower" is only at or near its peak amount at the higher rpms.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

Wonderful explanation! Thank you.