I am stumpted with a tight engine vibration at 1,000 RPMs!

Boyd

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I have been working on a 1965 New Yorker for several years now. You guys have help me on my brake conversion and I hope you can help me out with this one.
The engine is a 440. Clearly, it is not the original engine. It was in the car when I bought it. The casting number on the engine is 7T440E 3 22. The trans is the good old 727. The man that rebuilt the alternator said the alternator looked like it was from an emergency vehicle or motor home. The problem is that there is a tight engine vibration at 1,000 to 1,200 RPM. There is a bull nose/bullet balancer on it.
I thought it was a transmission shift point problem and that has been taken care of. Carburetor is an Edlebrock and that made a world of difference.
My mechanic says it is a balance problem.
Any ideas or past links I can check on.
 
The bull nose balancer is used on externally balanced engines. You also need a weighted torque convertor to complete the package. Is the balancer native to the engine? If so, you need to find a weighted torque convertor. You most likely have 440HP series engine with the heavy rods and forged steel crank, which is why the engine was externally balanced. The is a machined pad next to where the A/C compressor mounts, on that pad will be stamped the date code for the engine, 1965=A,1966=B etc. it goes up one letter for each year. Then the displacement, in this case 440. The forged steel crank and heavy rods were in many police cruiser and high performance engines from late '69 to'73. Check the numbers on the pad to identify the year of your engine. On the left side of the block there is a machined pad at the front of the engine just above the pan. From '70 that pad has the vin number of the vehicle the engine was installed in. If the first two letters are DK,CK or PK, it is a police series engine. The next two letters are the engine type and year , for example U0 is a high performance engine, 1970, and it will have the externally balanced system. That is what your are looking for. The engine could also have a V code for the third digit which is the 6BBL engine that also was externally balanced. 3rd digit U code motors were used in many other applications as well. Look this stuff up and report back. You do not want to drive this car with mismatched components as this will destroy the lower end of the engine.

Dave
 
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The bull nose balancer is used on externally balanced engines. You also need a weighted torque convertor to complete the package. Is the balancer native to the engine? If so, you need to find a weighted torque convertor. You most likely have 440HP series engine with the heavy rods and forged steel crank, which is why the engine was externally balanced. The is a machined pad next to where the A/C compressor mounts, on that pad will be stamped the date code for the engine, 1965=A,1966=B etc. it goes up one letter for each year. Then the displacement, in this case 440. The forged steel crank and heavy rods were in many police cruiser and high performance engines from late '69 to'73. Check the numbers on the pad to identify the year of your engine. On the left side of the block there is a machined pad at the front of the engine just above the pan. From '70 that pad has the vin number of the vehicle the engine was installed in. If the first two letters are DK,CK or PK, it is a police series engine. The next two letters are the engine type and year , for example U0 is a high performance engine, 1970, and it will have the externally balanced system. That is what your are looking for. The engine could also have a V code for the third digit which is the 6BBL engine that also was externally balanced. 3rd digit U code motors were used in many other applications as well. Look this stuff up and report back. You do not want to drive this car with mismatched components as this will destroy the lower end of the engine.

Dave
 
If I need the weighted torque convertor, are they a dealer part or aftermarket?
 
I can not be sure if it is native to the engine. I bought the car in Maryland and it set in Arizona for years. That is according to the previous owner.
 
If I need the weighted torque convertor, are they a dealer part or aftermarket?

The weighted torque convertor is a stock item for the 440 HP, Magnum and TNT series engines found respectively in Plymouths, Dodges and Chryslers in the years noted above. If you wanted a little higher stall speed, go with a convertor from a Charger RT or a Roadrunner, but any of these will work.

Dave
 
I can not be sure if it is native to the engine. I bought the car in Maryland and it set in Arizona for years. That is according to the previous owner.

Start by checking the stuff on the block. If you think you still have the '65 transmission in the car, Order the weighted convertor for a '70 model.

Dave

Dave
 
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Thank you, will keep you in the loop!


Note that the spline count changed on the A-727 transmission in '67. If you need to go to a weighted convertor, you will also need to change the input shaft on the older transmission.

Dave
 
Or go with a B&M flexplate like this and leave your converter alone.

B&M 10237: SFI-Approved Flexplate 1971-Up Big Block Chrysler 383, 400, 440 with TF727 | JEGS

BMA10237_2.jpg
 
Also a good work around. If you are planning to drive this car for pleasure use, this is an inexpensive alternative to replacing the convertor and input shaft. If you plan to run it hard, then you probably want to upgrade to the weighted convertor and heavier input shaft. You would probably be better served rebuilding the transmission and doing the upgrades at the same time.

Dave
 
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If they kept the 1965 trans then they probably kept the original converter. Which is a problem. As stated it has a smaller input shaft with fewer splines. Does your trans still have 2 cables going in to shift it?

You would need to change both the input shaft and the reaction shaft which is the solid shaft around the input shaft.

Bull nosed balancer? Does that mean the sides are angled/tapered inward? If so that is a cast crank engine that will have bigger weights on it than a heavy rod engine.
 
If they left the 66 trans then they probably kept the original converter. Which is a problem. As stated it has a small input shaft with fewer splines.

You would need to change both the input shaft and the reaction shaft which is the solid shaft around the input shaft.

Bull nosed balancer? Does that mean the sides are angled/tapered inward? If so that is a cast crank engine that will have bigger weights on it than a heavy rod engine.

Another possibility, but normally the egg shaped internal part of the balancer is a "bull nose" That is why more info from the block is needed. Also advisable to get the casting numbers of the balancer for proper ID. Casting number for the cast crank external balancer is #3577785. Cast 440 cranks staring in '74 are all externally balanced.

Dave
 
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Reckon it might be a good idea, too, to check the accuracy of the timing mark on the balancer itself? To see if the rubber in the balancer might have aged and allowed the outer ring to rotate. Usually there is some noted (when compared to a good balancer) front-back movement of the ring on the rubber, too.

Might there be some ID markings on the TF case to indicate if it's native to the car or otherwise?

Possibly, the engine might need some disassembly to see what's really in it? To check the casting numbers on the rods, for example? This might be the only way to end speculation of what's actually IN the block. The original "guts" will be reflected on the stamps on the appropriate block ID areas, but if somebody might have rebuilt it with the "they're all the same" orientation, no telling what's in there. Doing some quality control checks to see what's really in there might be needed? Any other valid ways to determine that without full disassembly (to carefully see the casting numbers on the crank and rods, plus pistons)?

Didn't Mopar Perf have a "weight set kit" to do the same thing as the B&M flexplate? I knew they said to knock off weights on weighted converters if needed, but don't recall if they had a weight set to do the opposite? When did they stop putting drain plugs in the torque converters (which was near where the weights should be, if needed)?

Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
 
You are right they did sell a weight kit. The early 60’s thru 1971’s still had a drain plug.
 
We think we have a 1969 440, 1965 727 trans, 1975 cast crank balancer, and no weights on the torque converter. Looks like 1CT466 on the side of the block. Wondering where to go next. What would the difference be in the B&M plate and/or the torque converter?
 
We think we have a 1969 440, 1965 727 trans, 1975 cast crank balancer, and no weights on the torque converter. Looks like 1CT466 on the side of the block. Wondering where to go next. What would the difference be in the B&M plate and/or the torque converter?

I think that you should pull the pan and get the numbers off of the crankshaft. This engine was probably rebuilt at some point and some idiot mixed and matched the parts. They may have replaced the original steel crank with a cast unit or possibly just installed the wrong balancer, but you need to know what you have inside before ordering parts, you do not want to end up with a worse problem than you already have. I wish there was a simple solution, but there isn't one. The cast crank, if you have one is weighed differently than the steel units.

Dave
 
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