Is KYB "Losing It's Stuff?"

[Gerald Morris]

Greetings B'rer C Body Moparians!

While enjoying once again good steering and a straight, proper drive, I notice too much bouncing when I hit those little dips and bumps in the streets, indicative of shock absorber failure. These KYB Gas Adjust front shocks are just 4 years old, with perhaps 20K miles on them, and these were even Made in Japan! Kuso da nee!

I admit these were purchased through Rock Auto, and I've come to suspect them a little, like Amazon, of not always vending brand new, unused products. Still, I would LIKE to be "just paranoid" about such.

Have any of you other KYB customers noticed any premature weakness in their products recently? I've heard plenty praise for Bilstein from the many truck vaqueros in the Barrio here, but loathe the expense, unless there is NO other option. What do you think?

 

[CBODY67]

I determined from my experiences with KONIs on one of my cars, that TIRE choice plays into how the car feels, too. NOT just the air pressure in the tires, but how the tire is built and sidewall stiffness/support.

The two sets of Pirelli P77s, for example, rode good and handled great, but I never could get the KONIs adjusted to where the prior gutsiness was with the prior BFG Radial TAs (with their internal wedges at the beads for sidewall stiffness). After the 2nd set pf P77s cracked to the stainless steel tire cords, a new set of Radial TAs brought back that gutsy feeling I liked. SO, on THAT car, only Radial TAs with the KONIs.

With the P77s, the "soft bounce" rubber (their term) they used seemed to absorb too much of the little things in the road. So the shocks seemed to get the impression they were always on a smooth Interstate and never really stiffened up like they used to. With the BFGs, they still rode smooth, but acted normally as to stiffening up for big bumps and rough roads.

Be advised that Bilsteins are high-pressure gas shocks. IF you had issues with the KYB front shocks (mid-prfessure gas shocks), you certainly will have problem with the higher-pressure Bilsteins.

Just my experiences,
CBODY67

 

[Gerald Morris]

Most sensible advice. I was running Hankook Optimo 724s 215/75 R14, but recently purchased a pair of Vercellis of the same size. ONE of THOSE was ripped when the damned front fender came down through it, though, this cushioned a fall which otherwise would have far more badly damaged the just built front suspension. So, yes, I did recently change my rolling rubber. Perhaps I should rotate the rear Optimos up front for the present. If this reduces the oscillation, then I'll use it as Proof Sufficient. It's certainly worth trying. July ALWAYS is the Morris Clan's WORST MONTH for money, so I can't buy anything until mid-September.

I still have ONE Gas-Adjust off Mathilda too, so if I see clear evidence of shock absorber fatigue, I can at least minimize expense. I now suspect Cheap Rubbers as a likely cause of recent bouncing though. Thx big BIG!

 

[413]

I don't think you can compare Bilsteins and KYB shocks like that. Much different e in price and quality to connect the dots like that.

Would need to buy some Bilsteins and do a side by side with KYB on the same car and tires.

 

[CBODY67]

The BAD thing about shock absorbers from THEN to NOW is that much has changed! In times of when the cars were just "used cars", the old Monroe Super 500s had the big pistons and firmer valving. We got some Chrysler Parts versions for the '66 Newport, back then, and it made it really fun to drive. Not having to slow down for dips like GM and Ford cars had to, for example! Later, when the fronts got a bit weak, I put some Gabriel Striders on the front (actually, two different sets, as they aged and started to bounce more). With the Chrysler HD shocks on the back and the Striders on the front (set to the mid-range setting), it was even more fun to drive.

When I out new shocks on the '67 Newport front, I got the "equivalent" Radial Matic Monroes on teh front. NOT equivalent OR seeming to be "tuned" for radial tires, from the way they acted. But that was all I could find or read about. It was noted that the KONI founder liked to drive Chryslers, so the Chrysler shocks were more attuned to Chrysler Products than others were, but I could not justify the additional expense for an "unknown" but trusted part.

YET, through all the years, the Gabriel Hi-Jackers (yes, those allegedly cursed air shocks I like) do still have the huge pistons in them and probably are the same internally as they used to be in the 1970s. Do NOT have to put air in them, just use them for their big pistons and such internally!

For the 1980 Newport, I got some Chrysler Parts HD shocks for the front. They gave it that great feel on dipis and bumps that it already had with the factory HD suspension.

In PRESENT time, I would still put the air shocks on the back, if for nothing than the biggest pistons inside of them. Air use optional. As for the front? MORE deliberations! Probably go with the stoutest car Monroe shock and hope for the best. Otherwise, so many in here have had good experiences with KYBs, that might be a main option to me.

At THIS point in time, it kind of seems that the USA brand shocks are probably the same items, just different paint on them. KYB is not a USA brand, but is an import brand of decades of experience building shocks for the import market. If you read the advertisements for the USA brands, including ACDelco, in essence, they ALL mention the same attributes in the same words, usually. As if the dialogue is the same as the "background" of the pamphlet is changed?

In the Monroe line, the old MonroeMatic has seemingly been upgraded from the "entry level" shock of old to a larger piston, between the old 1" pistons (in the back) and a now-larger (but not 1 3/8" piston) in the backs. Still at a reasonable price, it seems, for now.

Just some thoughts and experiences.
CBODY67

 

[Gerald Morris]

I don't think you can compare Bilsteins and KYB shocks like that. Much different e in price and quality to connect the dots like that.

Would need to buy some Bilsteins and do a side by side with KYB on the same car and tires.

Yes, any accurate assessment of both brands requires comparison with ALL OTHER VARIABLES HELD CONSTANT. The ONE variable I have trouble with at present is my spending plastic, which overheats this time of year, and is doing so now. Might be a worthy experiment this coming January, or not. Time must tell.

 

[Gerald Morris]

VERY INTERESTING data here:

The BAD thing about shock absorbers from THEN to NOW is that much has changed! In times of when the cars were just "used cars", the old Monroe Super 500s had the big pistons and firmer valving.

I know where to get some of those, and already was considering it. Hope they're still there.

We got some Chrysler Parts versions for the '66 Newport, back then, and it made it really fun to drive. Not having to slow down for dips like GM and Ford cars had to, for example! Later, when the fronts got a bit weak, I put some Gabriel Striders on the front (actually, two different sets, as they aged and started to bounce more). With the Chrysler HD shocks on the back and the Striders on the front (set to the mid-range setting), it was even more fun to drive.

Pity that most adjustable shocks have disappeared.

When I out new shocks on the '67 Newport front, I got the "equivalent" Radial Matic Monroes on teh front. NOT equivalent OR seeming to be "tuned" for radial tires, from the way they acted. But that was all I could find or read about. It was noted that the KONI founder liked to drive Chryslers, so the Chrysler shocks were more attuned to Chrysler Products than others were, but I could not justify the additional expense for an "unknown" but trusted part.

Another relegated to Unobtainium now.

YET, through all the years, the Gabriel Hi-Jackers (yes, those allegedly cursed air shocks I like) do still have the huge pistons in them and probably are the same internally as they used to be in the 1970s. Do NOT have to put air in them, just use them for their big pistons and such internally!

Clearly there's something to this. BOTH of the Newports I've bought since 2016 had exactly those on the rear. Both of the sets were shot to **** by the time I got them, alas.

For the 1980 Newport, I got some Chrysler Parts HD shocks for the front. They gave it that great feel on dipis and bumps that it already had with the factory HD suspension.

In PRESENT time, I would still put the air shocks on the back, if for nothing than the biggest pistons inside of them. Air use optional. As for the front? MORE deliberations! Probably go with the stoutest car Monroe shock and hope for the best. Otherwise, so many in here have had good experiences with KYBs, that might be a main option to me.

I loved the KYB Gas Adjust until very recently. My current predicament might be anomolous. Monroe is my #2 choice, and long was my #1.

At THIS point in time, it kind of seems that the USA brand shocks are probably the same items, just different paint on them.

Yes.

KYB is not a USA brand, but is an import brand of decades of experience building shocks for the import market.

Note: KYB has distributed production around the eastern side of the Pacific Rim. I've seen China, Malaysia and Old Japan in the past decade. The Malay made ones held up very well, until one of them was catastrophically bent in that nasty collision in 2021.

If you read the advertisements for the USA brands, including ACDelco, in essence, they ALL mention the same attributes in the same words, usually. As if the dialogue is the same as the "background" of the pamphlet is changed?

In the Monroe line, the old MonroeMatic has seemingly been upgraded from the "entry level" shock of old to a larger piston, between the old 1" pistons (in the back) and a now-larger (but not 1 3/8" piston) in the backs. Still at a reasonable price, it seems, for now.

Yah, they remain in my #2 slot for now.... They still have that plant in Appalachia. Can't recall if it's Kentucky or Tennessee.

 

[bigmoparjeff]

About ten years ago I installed the silver KYB shocks on a customer's Ford Expedition. Right out of the box they appeared undersized compared to the original shocks on the truck. Within 6 months they were bouncier than the 320K mile originals that I took off. I don't like the silver KYB's and I don't like the white, high pressure KYB's either, especially on a C body. Front's are way too small and rears too large, making for a completely unbalanced suspension.

I just bought a set of the base model Gabriel shocks for my caprice wagon, and they are now made in China. The tube design was not like most American shocks, making it very difficult to get the mounting bolts installed. Basically, Gabriel trashed their existing tooling and farmed the job out to some factory in China that was already making shocks. Looks like I'm going to have to cross them off the list too. I bought some higher line Gabriels for my truck a few months back, and they were made in Mexico and looked like normal shocks.


Jeff

 

[edbods]

About ten years ago I installed the silver KYB shocks on a customer's Ford Expedition. Right out of the box they appeared undersized compared to the original shocks on the truck.

customer supplied or it was the part number that matched from your supplier? wonder if the supplier or customer got the wrong part. I bought the gas-a-just for a 67 fury from rockauto, and the shocks were the same size and everything. A few of us down under (and some on these forums too) have bought their shocks specifically for our models with good results

 

[bnz84]

I will likely try these adjustable Ranchos when the time comes. I sifted thru a lot of specs and compared KYB specs with these and they are close. My biggest concern is front compressed height. Rancho is 3/4" taller. As far as valving and tuning the adjustability factor should make these work. Yes the red sucks but you can get black boots.

Rancho RS999188

Rancho RS999001


Specifications

Part Number	Lift/Lowered	Position	Item	Quantity	Extended Length	Compressed Length	Travel	Top Mount	Bottom Mount
KG4507	Factory	Front	Shock Absorber	2	12.28"	8.15"	4.13"	STEM	EYELET
KG5512	Factory	Rear	Shock Absorber	2	22.64"	13.98"

Part#	Upper	Lower	Compressed	Extended	Travel	PartsPacks	MountKey
RS999001 rear	L1	L1	13.68​	20.83​	7.15​	P00976,P00816	L1L1
RS999188 front	S4	LS23	9.02​	12.39​	3.37​	P01192	S4LS23

 

[CBODY67]

I will likely try these adjustable Ranchos when the time comes. I sifted thru a lot of specs and compared KYB specs with these and they are close. My biggest concern is front compressed height. Rancho is 3/4" taller. As far as valving and tuning the adjustability factor should make these work. Yes the red sucks but you can get black boots.

Rancho RS999188

Rancho RS999001


Specifications

Part Number	Lift/Lowered	Position	Item	Quantity	Extended Length	Compressed Length	Travel	Top Mount	Bottom Mount
KG4507	Factory	Front	Shock Absorber	2	12.28"	8.15"	4.13"	STEM	EYELET
KG5512	Factory	Rear	Shock Absorber	2	22.64"	13.98"

Part#	Upper	Lower	Compressed	Extended	Travel	PartsPacks	MountKey
RS999001 rear	L1	L1	13.68​	20.83​	7.15​	P00976,P00816	L1L1
RS999188 front	S4	LS23	9.02​	12.39​	3.37​	P01192	S4LS23

One concern I would have with the Rancho shocks is their heritage of being a real off-road shock for pickup trucks which have been lifted and such. NOT car-based at all. I'm not sure why they have seemingly expanded into the car realm of things, either.

Tbe compressed length is very important! The shock and rubber bumper travel limiters should all reach the end of their arc at the same time. Even just a bit sooner for the bumpers, leaving the shock just a bit of additional possible compression. Allowing for the compression of the rubber bumpers, too. This prevents the shock from being the main travel limiter and doing internal damage as a result.

I'd look elsewhere for car shocks than Rancho, with all due respect.

CBODY67

 

[bnz84]

I'll be the gunnie pig then. Seems like we need some alternatives. Because of the adjustability I'm much less concerned about truckness. Actually most of differences are desirable to me. Maybe overkill. I've checked Summit and there are a number of options for the front that are closer to KYG compression specs. Probably because of all the lowering going on with the yungins I guess.

 

[CBODY67]

Better check the compressed lengths from the Monroe website specs rather than anything in Summit. The compressed length has NOTHING to do with lowered ride heights. The compressed height is designed-in when the architecture of the suspension is originally deisgned by the OEM. Granted, there are some shocks designed for lowered or raised right heights, but using the Monroe specs (as Monroe was a Chrysler supplier back then) is best.

I have nothing against adjustable shocks at all, in the realm of the old Gabriel Striders and KONIs I have on another car, period. BUT there is still a base calibration that is done first, then the adjustability changes the rebound compression from that (unless you aim for some of the double-adjustable Vikings (and their $300.00+ each price).

It might be interesting to see if Rancho just co-opted another brand of shock, added their own valving calibration, painted them white, and that's that?

CBODY67

 

[Gerald Morris]

About ten years ago I installed the silver KYB shocks on a customer's Ford Expedition. Right out of the box they appeared undersized compared to the original shocks on the truck. Within 6 months they were bouncier than the 320K mile originals that I took off. I don't like the silver KYB's and I don't like the white, high pressure KYB's either, especially on a C body. Front's are way too small and rears too large, making for a completely unbalanced suspension.

I just bought a set of the base model Gabriel shocks for my caprice wagon, and they are now made in China. The tube design was not like most American shocks, making it very difficult to get the mounting bolts installed. Basically, Gabriel trashed their existing tooling and farmed the job out to some factory in China that was already making shocks. Looks like I'm going to have to cross them off the list too. I bought some higher line Gabriels for my truck a few months back, and they were made in Mexico and looked like normal shocks.


Jeff

More and more, I choose "Hecho in Mexico" when I can't get something made in this country any longer. The Chinese Communist Party still likes to centralize production, and while they've embraced crapitalism, with traditional Chinese ethics, for MANY brands of many diverse products, they use the same industrial complex to produce goods meant to fulfil the contracts with these diverse vendors. Thus we see the exact same product at Harbwhore Freight, Bezo$Zon, VatoZone, Oh-Really et al. The Maquiladoras far more often run the same factories which once ran in the U.S., for the corporations which moved them rather than pay U.S. workers wages they could live on. So customers here get somewhat better quality control from maquiladoras than PLA factories.

 

[bigmoparjeff]

customer supplied or it was the part number that matched from your supplier? wonder if the supplier or customer got the wrong part. I bought the gas-a-just for a 67 fury from rockauto, and the shocks were the same size and everything. A few of us down under (and some on these forums too) have bought their shocks specifically for our models with good results

I ordered them myself.

On both front and rear shocks, other than length, every other dimension of the KYB's was somewhere from 2/3 to 3/4 of the factory Ford shocks. Even the rubber grommets for the top of the front shocks were barely big enough to not pull through the mounting holes.

Once I found out how bad the KYB's had become, I had planned to replace them with something else for free, but before I could do that he moved half way across the country and sold the truck shortly thereafter.


Jeff

 

[Gerald Morris]

I ordered them myself.

On both front and rear shocks, other than length, every other dimension of the KYB's was somewhere from 2/3 to 3/4 of the factory Ford shocks. Even the rubber grommets for the top of the front shocks were barely big enough to not pull through the mounting holes.

Once I found out how bad the KYB's had become, I had planned to replace them with something else for free, but before I could do that he moved half way across the country and sold the truck shortly thereafter.


Jeff

I found a good looking deal on NOS KYB front shocks, back fr when they were painted white, and tempts me. I might snap at it. Damn globalization of labor sure as **** draws flies is a race to the bottom for quality product.

 

[cuda hunter]

I put a set of kyb's on one of my jeep cherokee's last year. They failed within a year.
Replaced them. Unfortunately with kyb's since they actually warranted them.
Not impressed.

 

[Gerald Morris]

I put a set of kyb's on one of my jeep cherokee's last year. They failed within a year.
Replaced them. Unfortunately with kyb's since they actually warranted them.
Not impressed.

Hmm, looks like KYB quality is declining. I ran VatoZone's alternators for several years for not better reason than that they warrant them, knowing damned well the high failure rate would drive away all their custom were it not for that warranty. The Warranty has become the main product here! The owners of whatever daibatzu which plops out those KYB shocks clearly took a page from Yankee crapitalism which they would have done better to wipe their own arses with.

I'm going to put only Hankook Optimo 724 215/75R14s on Gertrude's front end for now, to control THAT variable, then, if the Saturday Night Drive-in bounce continues, will replace the front shocks. I might even use the one shock I salvaged off Mathilda, as those never failed, barring getting bent in a collision. So far the KYB Gas-Adjust units I put on our Dodge D150 up front still damp down the harmonics quickly enough, but I suspect they've opted to degrade their own product for short term profits....