71Polara383
Kid with ballcap
Boringggggg
Meet Buttercup, a 1972 New Yorker Brougham 2-door Hardtop
- Thread starter ayilar
- Start date
fury fan
Senior Member
While I wouldn't try to make a musclecar out of it, being a low-compression and a '72, I would take the opportunity to perk it up a bit while you're in there.
Wouldn't cost that much more to get some compression and an RV-type cam.
Wouldn't cost that much more to get some compression and an RV-type cam.
71Polara383
Kid with ballcap
I agree. Something similar to what was done to Ming is what I have in mind. But with much less machine shop time/cost.
73Coupe
Senior Member
What's stock compression on a '72?
The '73 was about 8:1 I think. I had similar plans to bump that up with different pistons had I kept the car.
Never researched cams to know what an "RV" type of grind does. Overall better breathing I guess...?
The '73 was about 8:1 I think. I had similar plans to bump that up with different pistons had I kept the car.
Never researched cams to know what an "RV" type of grind does. Overall better breathing I guess...?
fury fan
Senior Member
RV is a reference to a stock-type cam, but with a bit more lift and maybe a little more duration, to provide more torque.
There is some interesting feedback on motor mods. The most obvious would be reestablish the deck height to pre -1970 standards w/ the appropriate replacement piston. A working compression of 9.5 to 1 would really give Buttercup a major kick in the pants feel w/ the right cam to retain its drivability. Now back to reality, Michel is seeking a OEM based repair, so that's the way we are going to go. During teardown the source of what caused the contamination origin was found. As you can see in the photos the intake gasket has three rust holes in it. These were cover up by the intake manifold assemb. The culprit causing the rust out was the insulation pad under the intake but laying on top of the intake gasket. See photos.
Other discoveries were due to the amount of crud run through the bearing a crankshaft will be turn down to .010 under on both main and connecting rod journals. All cyls. were free of heavy scratching from debris or the above crud circulated through the lubrication system.
fury fan
Senior Member
After I saw my first valley pan with rust holes in it many years ago, replacing this part became one of the first repairs I did on any bigblock car I brought home.
Given the opportunity, rodents love to make nests around the rear side of the intake, and their urine will eat thru that pan over time.
This is the second instance I have seen on FCBO of an in-use engine having holes in the valley pan.
I don't know how many folks will find this comment, but... The valley pan should be considered a mandatory inspection/repair on any bigblock (along with the timing chain).
Given the opportunity, rodents love to make nests around the rear side of the intake, and their urine will eat thru that pan over time.
This is the second instance I have seen on FCBO of an in-use engine having holes in the valley pan.
I don't know how many folks will find this comment, but... The valley pan should be considered a mandatory inspection/repair on any bigblock (along with the timing chain).
Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
I choose not to reinstall that insulation material in mine.
71Polara383
Kid with ballcap
I found a company that repops the stuff and was considering trying it to see if there was any noticeable difference or reduction of engine noise.
I've never put one back either...but ma mopar didn't do things without a reason.
Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
And I've heard different reasons, sound, heat displacement and a cozy home for mice.
As I remember it was implemented to combat Condensation in the intake under high humidity conditions.
Samplingman
Old Man with a Hat
Never heard that one, adding to the list. I guess the real question is what does @ayilar want to do, replace or leave out?
My call is to leave it out. Aftermarket manifolds seem to operate w/o the insulation material. I can't imagine the are any noise suppression benefits by install one.
sixpkrt
Senior Member
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I made my own insulation for my 72 Imperial when I pulled the engine out for a rebuild back in 2005, using appliance insulation. The insulation replacements weren't available back then.
It's still in the 72 and never gave me any issues.
I believe Ma Mopars reason for the insulation was to suppress the clatter from the valve train.
I didn't add the insulation when the 71 NYer engine rebuild happened, and there is a noticeable sound difference between the two cars.
I'd add it if doing a rebuild.
On Buttercups rebuild if grinding the crank journals .10, new bearings all around, crank/connecting rods should be in order. I would not use the old ones. But that's me.
While your at it, please put a new cam in that 440 while you have it out. The car is worth spending a few extra bucks on IMO.
It's still in the 72 and never gave me any issues.
I believe Ma Mopars reason for the insulation was to suppress the clatter from the valve train.
I didn't add the insulation when the 71 NYer engine rebuild happened, and there is a noticeable sound difference between the two cars.
I'd add it if doing a rebuild.
On Buttercups rebuild if grinding the crank journals .10, new bearings all around, crank/connecting rods should be in order. I would not use the old ones. But that's me.
While your at it, please put a new cam in that 440 while you have it out. The car is worth spending a few extra bucks on IMO.
After many weeks of procuring the parts needed, I am finally able to proceed w/ the 72 New Yorker rebuild. After a thorough measurement of the Crankshaft and engine block I determined that a 0.030 over bore was needed to cleanup cyl. wall wear present. If you look at the photos below the piston skirt wear was present in the center portion of the skirt only. This is mainly caused by not allowing the piston to fully warm up. The usual causes are too cool of a thermostat used. I have found this before in many applications where an overheating / oil pressure issue is present. The piston skirt is not allowed full exspansion and heavy wear of the center of the skirt is the result.
The crankshaft measurement revealed little wear on the main and rod journals. A good micro polish restored it to near perfection. The oil pump on the other hand was junk. a victim of all the rust and dirt run through it. Another area affected was the camshaft, cam bearings. Most notably the wear on the cam bearing journals, which rarely show wear and the cam bearings themselves. Note the amount of bearing material present in the oil pan in the photo below. Also note the pan condition as it was pushed in about 1/4 or an inch. Some blacksmith work brought it back original shape. Refer to the photos in post#369
Another part of engine reassembly is correct install of the vibration dampner. Never install w/ a hammer and a block of wood as thrust bearing, dampner or crank damage can. result. Use the tools as seen below.
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Cyl heads were in good condition and all valve seals were replaced along w/ a new Melling SPD II camshaft and lifters. Most of the valve seals were replaced although hard as concrete. The timing chain of course was a Cloyes product. Melling also was the source of the oil pump. The only mishap was the breaking of one of the exhaust manifold studs. It will be dealt with today.
fury fan
Senior Member
Most likely all of this damage occurred when I was driving Buttercup in Illinois during a FCBO get-together weekend.
Imagine how bad it would be if I hadn't broken the motormount near Rockford???
Imagine how bad it would be if I hadn't broken the motormount near Rockford???
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