New to me 1965 Newport

[Omni]

Good Day All
Recently acquired a 58K 1965 Newport. Drove it from Wisconsin to NW Ohio with no issues.
Now that it is home, I'm dealing with some annoying electrical gemlins.
First, the P.O. apparently tried to take the horn switch apart. The problem was that the ground wire had broken at the steering coupler (not the switch).

Second, the light switch rheostat winding had fallen out of the ceramic block. Fixed this with a spare switch.

Third, The fusable link was blown from the starter relay to the bulk-head connector. How the car ran is a mystery. Anyway, I spliced (soldered) in a in-line fuse holder. I started with SFE14 (not heavy enough) SFE20 (still apparently to light), AGC25 (they last for about a dozen starts, Now I'm up st SFE30's. The shop manual does not give me any values for the fusable link. To complicate this further, the rebuilt starter that the P.O. installed was defective as the stator was shorting against the field windings. I installed a starter from my stash. Still not perfect but at least the positive battery cable stays cool.
A new positive cable will be installed as the current one has one of those bolt-on terminals. (I'm waiting on the cloth wrap tape). The negative cable was replaced with one from my stash.

Can anyone provide me with any info on the fusable link? I am in the process of cleaning every electrical connection, and applying dielectric grease once they are done. The charging voltage (at the battery) is about 13.8. The amp gauge shows the charging at about the 3/4 point towards 'charge'.

Thanks to all who respond
Omni

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Nice score! Pictures please!

The fusible link is typically smaller in gauge than the wire it is protecting. I'm not sure if it's two or four sizes smaller... In line fuses won't cut it as you're discovering. It also sounds like your alternator is attempting to charge through resistance, hence the high reading. That may be a fire waiting to happen somewhere, likely in the two big wires black and red that run to the amp gauge and carry ALL the electrical power.

I strongly suggest you bypass the bulkhead connections of the red wire (runs to the fusible link) and black wire (runs to the alternator) that run to the amp gauge - it's a poor design and a fire waiting to happen. Search bulkhead bypass on this site. Lots of info. I run them unbroken through their own hole in the firewall with a grommet.

You can find original Mopar fusible links on eBay, but they're expensive. I just bought a roll from Napa and made my own. $12...

Here's how I did it... (copied from another post)
"I just finished doing the bulkhead bypass on my 66 T&C. I kept the amp gauge wired into the loop though.

Even though some 15 years ago I had cleaned and checked everything down there and packed it all with dielectric grease, it was time to do it properly, as this past fall just before winter nap time I was getting the old "burning wiring" smell, so I knew that was a call for help from the car.

I was a bit overwhelmed about diving in, but I figured I had to. And it wasn't so bad after all...

After peeling the 3 multi pin connector clips off the main bulkhead block, one at a time I removed each individual wire terminal from both the bulkhead and the three clips and cleaned them up with emery cloth (I replaced a few too), and made all of them happy again.

As well, I eliminated the two 10 ga wires going to the amp gauge from running through the bulkhead - and instead ran them as unbroken 10 ga wires through a firewall grommet. I added a multi terminal junction box (NOT a common strip bus bar), and terminated each of the two wires at their own junction block, and then added a fusible link to each one by running the fusible link to another terminal, and then the original wires continued from there to their destinations - the black one runs to the alternator, and the red one to the battery stud on the starter relay, through the original fusible link.

So I'm pretty well covered in the case of any issues, AND I keep my amp gauge function which I like. I also wire brushed all the starter relay studs, and replaced quite a few suspect connectors underhood, and in the process, I figured out how to use my dad's packard terminal crimper - makes them look just like factory! But now I need to buy more 12/14 ga packard male terminals!!

Working methodically it took me about a week, an hour or two every day.

So far so good, and in the short test drives not more burning wire smell, signals and lights are bright and happy, gauges and dash lights are brighter, and I feel more confident over all."

 

[Gerald Morris]

Nice clean job w the fusible links and wire re-routing. Since American Wire Gauge normally is used such that even numbers are for conductors, while odd for structural wires, one can say "Two sizes smaller" when describing fusible links, though arithmetically, that comes to FOUR. Having run my main power wires currently in #8 AWG, I use #12 for my fusible links. IFF I get some high current alternator next summer for a more heavily electrified cooling system, I'll go to #6 AWG for the main power lines (ALT and BAT) and have to get #10 AWG link wire.

I was lucky in one regard only wrt wiring when we bought Mathilda, the bypass had been done already. I wound up routing into the dash through grommeted holes for serious power after the wiring fire that first month I was driving the car. That was when I learned that there was NO overcurrent protection left under the hood by the previous owner at ALL.

Folks definitely need to fix that sort of thing as soon as they get one of these cars, as after 5 decades, that problem crops up more than many sensible folk may think.

 

[Omni]

Ross
Thank You so much for the response and the links. That is a nice 'neat' job that, for all appearances, looks factory.
I don't mind electrical work. I have stashed away in the barn a 55 gallon barrel that is full of wiring harness that were pirated from stripped out vehicles. I have used them to repair everything from Simplicity garden tractors, to various cars.
I am guessing that the fusible links act more like a slow blow fuse. Anyway, I will obtain some fuse wire (probably in the largest gauge) and re -wire.
My goal here is to keep the Chrysler as stock appearing as possible. Any leads as where you can purchase the multi terminal junction box that the article describes?
Attached are a couple of pics of the '65 as purchased.
Thanks again for the response.
Omni

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

I got my terminal block from Princess Auto up here in Ontario Canada, but it's available on Amazon. You only use however many terminals you need. Amazon has MANY choices available, including decent single and double blocks. This is what I used, since it was very affordable, which appealed to my part Scots nature. Look at their second picture to see what I mean about it being customizable:

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Sys...9&sr=1-1-72f97b9d-4da3-494a-85d0-f933637a0690

 

[Gerald Morris]

"....
I am guessing that the fusible links act more like a slow blow fuse. Anyway, I will obtain some fuse wire (probably in the largest gauge) and re -wire.
....

Fusible links are the original "slo-blo" fuse. Obtain the fusible link wire in the CORRECT gauge, otherwise, you will only set your wiring harness ablaze. If you plan to retain an original look on that car, then stick with #10 AWG for your main power leads, and use #14 AWG fusible link wire cut in 7 inch lengths, with 1/2 inch of the insulation removed from each end for termination.

Do you know the current ampacity of the alternator? There still abounded many funky ~ 35A alternators in 1965, with 60A being reserved for "heavy duty" such as police, ambulance, taxi, limousine wiring, and "fully loaded" cars with AC, rear heating, cruise control and such. DO make SURE of your alternator ampacity, and wire for that, or change the alternator, then wire for the replacement. I reckon you're aware of modern stuff that looks original, but runs at 95A such as Powermaster?

 

[Omni]

Fusible links are the original "slo-blo" fuse. Obtain the fusible link wire in the CORRECT gauge, otherwise, you will only set your wiring harness ablaze. If you plan to retain an original look on that car, then stick with #10 AWG for your main power leads, and use #14 AWG fusible link wire cut in 7 inch lengths, with 1/2 inch of the insulation removed from each end for termination.

Do you know the current ampacity of the alternator? There still abounded many funky ~ 35A alternators in 1965, with 60A being reserved for "heavy duty" such as police, ambulance, taxi, limousine wiring, and "fully loaded" cars with AC, rear heating, cruise control and such. DO make SURE of your alternator ampacity, and wire for that, or change the alternator, then wire for the replacement. I reckon you're aware of modern stuff that looks original, but runs at 95A such as Powermaster?

 

[Omni]

Good Morning Gerald
Thank you for the tutorial on the fusible links. I did not take into account the wire length.
Is there a way I can determine the alternator output? It appears to be a recent replacement. (The recent replacement starter turned out to have a internal issue, I guess it is the best the Chinese have to offer.)
On a related note, the Amp Gauge wires, where they pass through the bulk-head connector, appear to be a solid lug. On the engine side they are physically bolted to a lug. They are not part of a detachable plug. I do not have an old connector to dissect. If I re-wire this arrangement an install a separate terminal strip, wouldn't that be the same thing?
I was told last evening at a local car show, the the Alt gauge it self may be the culprit. I temporarily wired to the existing harness an aftermarket gauge to see if I still have the issue.
Haven't run it yet to check, just wondering if anyone else has experienced a faulty gauge.

Thanks again for the response
Omni

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Yes, the amp gauge if it has failed will open that circuit. If you don't care about it functioning for the time being, simply join together safely the black and red wires where they would have connected to the amp gauge, using a suitable union. You can check the amp Gauge by disconnecting the black and red wires, with the battery disconnected of course, and put a multimeter on the black and red posts on the amp gauge to check for continuity. No continuity? Bad gauge.

I would ascertain for sure that the black and red wires going to the amp gauge have been properly upgraded, so that the connections at the bulkhead have been eliminated, and the wire is just routed through as you said. I don't trust "previous work" in these situations. In performing this safety upgrade, some people chose to remove the connectors and drill out the holes in the bulkhead and drill out the holes in the bulkhead to allow an unbroken 10 gauge wire to slip through, performing the same safety upgrade has running those two wires through their own separate hole in the firewall with a grommet as I suggested. Find out for sure. If it turns out to be as such, then yes you can run those wires to a terminal block as I suggested in my previous post and protect both the black and red wires with suitable fusible links like I did.

 

[Gerald Morris]

Good Morning Gerald
Thank you for the tutorial on the fusible links. I did not take into account the wire length.
Is there a way I can determine the alternator output? It appears to be a recent replacement. (The recent replacement starter turned out to have a internal issue, I guess it is the best the Chinese have to offer.)

Haven't run it yet to check, just wondering if anyone else has experienced a faulty gauge.

Thanks again for the response
Omni

You're welcome Richard! Ampacity calculations are based in part on the resistivity of the conductor. Automotive and other low voltage wiring systems particularly must be wired with LENGTH near the top of design considerations because with low voltage (6-24V) much power lost to length effects the system severely. This often results in the dim tail lights in old cars, which, in addition to faulty grounding caused or aggravated by rust and aluminum oxidation, the wire runs are LONG, and in UNDERSIZED WIRE!

Fusible links for Mopars were designed at conductor lengths of 6 inches.You'll do well to consider that voltage drop should be no greater than 3% from source to end of a wire run in your car. Review the following page carefully:

Wire Size Calculator

I use tables such as this, and generally oversize my conductors to the next trade size after consultation.

Regarding your alternator, examine it for any vendor marks. Was it RE-manufactured, or is it newly made? I suspect most of the "roundback" alternators appropriate for a pre-1972 Mopar get rebuilt in Mexico, with my own anecdotal failure rate from VatoZone being 66.67%. The nominal 60 amp alternator I now run and have for 3 years is third in a series of returned, faulty ones. If you can't ascertain the ampacity, get a new one. The only other empirical way to determine this will be to bypass the regulator, putting full voltage on the field input on the alternator, then, using a decent quality amp-probe clamp-on meter, observe how much current the alternator pushes into the battery. DON'T DO THIS FOR MORE AN A MINUTE OR TWO!!!! You CAN 1) BOIL THE ELECTROLYTE OUT OF THE BATTERY, possibly causing explosion, or 2) burn up the alternator field windings, diodes or all of the aforementioned. As soon as you know the ampacity, you can then wire appropriately for that.

Unless you plan to run some serious modern accessories, such as a high wattage sound system, or electric fans, coolant pumps and such, a 60 amp alternator should suffice for a 1965 car. If you do go to a high current scheme, then follow Ross' advice with double care, as he has forgotten more about these mid-1960s C body Mopars than I know. Note how he made his fusible links nice and long, say, around 6 inches. I have bakelite terminal strips myself, but prefer to put my links at the battery terminals, then use split bolts to facilitate electrically and mechanically secure contact with the power conductors. I use ring terminals to attach to marine battery lugs, and clamp the link to the conductor with the split bolt, which then gets wrapped in rubber, then friction tape, as per practice with split bolts.

Fusible links make EXCELLENT overcurrent protection for main power conductors, but you might also avail yourself of solid state relays (SSRs) which have some overcurrent fault protection designed into them. Use these for any high current loads such as headlights, blowers, fans, pumps or whatnot. While there ARE integral circuit breakers in your headlight switch, a spare in the kick panel and one in the wiper switch, these loads really are better served by SSRs fed directly from the battery by the shortest conductor possible. Use a bus bar type terminal strip or fuse strip for this. I have 3 circuits protected this way, Hi/lo beam headlights, and a pusher fan for the radiator.

Last, attend to the venerable 6 circuit fuse block under your dash! Be SURE the contacts in there are clean, and that fuses are at the specified ampacity shown in the block, or the FSM if the block no longer is legible. I prefer these old style glass fuses to the cheap modern sorts as they were designed by better folk back in the day. Use NOS replacements when you can get them, for the same reason.

I've NOT finished re-wiring Mathilda, my 1966 Newport, but after replacing the main power stuff that burned up about a month after buying her 5 years ago, I've had little trouble. I call the job 95% done, and that is likely where it will stay, no matter how much I do to it. If wiring isn't your forte, you might want a finished product with your system, but I like open ended solutions, which is why I drive that car.