Newbie Paint questions - '71 300

[Rubatoguy]

Hello all. I have some newbie paint questions. My '71 300 with Q5 / AY2F: Coral Turquoise Metallic and a white vinyl roof, is in need of a repaint. It appears to have the original paint which is worn to the primer in some high spots. You can tell this single-stage paint is very tired. In addition, I can see some rust under the vinyl roof at the C-pillar - but it does not look too bad. A couple of questions.

* Should the car be painted before the roof is repaired and recovered in a new vinyl roof? Or does the order not matter?
* In repairing the c-pillar rust, does the interior headliner need to be removed? (I was wondering if you have to do any welding, it might destroy the headliner.)
* Is it worth it to upgrade the paint to a two-stage paint (with clear coat)
* Are their any tasks that you can do to help defray the cost of painting? (trim removal, etc)
* What are the things to look for when selecting a paint shop?

If anyone can recommend any shop in Oregon or Washington, let me know. I had a car painted many years ago and I never knew if the price charged was reasonable or not. I find many shops to be hard to work with because they all seem to have a business model around insurance reimbursement, so if you show up to pay out of pocket, they seem to see that as an opportunity to overcharge.

I've love to hear any thoughts on this.

regards.
Todd
'71 300 2-door

 

[azblackhemi]

#1- First thing is to remove the vinyl top so you can assess the condition of the roof. The roof should be repaired as should all other bodywork needed before any paint is sprayed.
#2- If the top of the roof doesn't need any repairs you should be ok leaving the headliner in the car. The C-pillar rust can be repaired without taking too much apart. However if there's rust around the rear window ( and usually there is) then the rear window will have to be removed.
#3- Being that the color is mettalic I would absolutely do basecoat/clearcoat. Single stage metallic's can't be buffed very well.
#4- Anything you can do yourself will reduce the cost.
#5- References from trusted sources is about the only advice on finding the right shop.

 

[3C's & a D?]

Azblackhemi knows what he's talking about and has the pictures to prove it! I agree with everything he stated and will add, that it sounds like you're going to be putting the vinyl roof back on? If that's the case the back window and windshield really should come out, along with the gutter trim above the side windows.

Social media may be a way to find a good body shop, asking around at a classic car show would be better. Insurance reimbursement is a factor, alot of shops won't even consider working on old cars. Too many unknowns, (most) newer techs wouldn't know the intricacies of the oldies. I had a windshield installed on my '06 Magnum a few months ago, while I was there I figured I would ask if they could get a 725, same windshield as your 300. They said they don't work on cars older than 1997. I told them I'd install it myself if they could just check their distributor, didn't have one!

 

[CBODY67]

To me, there is nothing wrong with single-stage acrylic enamel with hardener, BUT as every shop's painter is used to shooting BC/CC, let them shoot what they are the most comfortable with. Getting an identical color match to what the orig color was originally can be a trick, possibly, all things considered. Although TCPGlobal.com can provide it both ways, I suspect.

Get that vinyl roof removed and look at what is under it. It'll probably be worse than you expected, even if the vinyl is still soft enough for a fingernail imprint.

Get the whole car painted, INCLUDING the top where the vinyl was. It was not painted or the sheet metal joint between the quarter panel and roof panel fully finished. THEN, about six months later (after the paint has fully cured), get the new vinyl roof fabric installed.

3M designed a product called "Alumalead" just for the lower back glass "rust-through" on GM cars with the sloped rear glasses. Most of them were rusted within 5 years from new. Chryslers took much longer. You can't estimate what is needed until you get everything taken off and cleaned. You CAN taolk about "worst case scenarios", which will include some metal fab for the corners.

In many cases, taking trim off of a 1970s-era car can be easier said than done UNLESS you have successfully done it before. INCLUDING the chrome drip rail molding. Any replacement moldings and such reside ONLY in the salvage yard, as a general rule.

Rocket Restorations is in Oregon. They have a YouTube channel, IIRC. It is obvious they are "Mopar Oriented". Not sure how close you might be to them. I've only seen their YouTube stuff.

The price of an OEM-level paint job (current OEM, that is, which is what the painter should be used to providing) has increased a good bit from what it was even 10 yrs ago. Be prepared for a "high price" to mean that corner body shop does nto want to do anything as old as your car. As to them, it can be "taking up space" in a stall that could otherwise producing profits. Just an advisory . . .

DO get a written estimate with the understanding that if anything unusual (and more costly) is uncovered, you WILL be notified to come and look at it and approve the additional work!

ALSO get some pictures, before and after, to present to your insurance company for your file. For general principles should any later damage to the car happen, that is covered by their policy.

BE prepared . . . the bright trim on the car now, that looks good, will not look that way against the new paint. So plan on doing some polishing to get it so it looks "more new". For body side trim, Chrysler used anodized aluminum, as the front/rear window moldings are stainless steel. Treat the anodized items like "weathered paint" as the stainless will polish up easily.

SAME "looks good now", but not so much with new paint, with the interior.

-- You MIGHT want to get the vinyl roof stuff done first. Letting them paint the roof area and blend the paint into the lowr areas on the rar body. Then, when money permits, get the rest of the car painted in the same OEM color. This can also allow them to fine-tune the color for the best color match. Just have them document the color formula and source on the repair order so they can duplicate it later on. This might be more "wallet friendly" to do it in segments.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67

 

[saforwardlook]

To me, there is nothing wrong with single-stage acrylic enamel with hardener, BUT as every shop's painter is used to shooting BC/CC, let them shoot what they are the most comfortable with. Getting an identical color match to what the orig color was originally can be a trick, possibly, all things considered. Although TCPGlobal.com can provide it both ways, I suspect.

Get that vinyl roof removed and look at what is under it. It'll probably be worse than you expected, even if the vinyl is still soft enough for a fingernail imprint.

Get the whole car painted, INCLUDING the top where the vinyl was. It was not painted or the sheet metal joint between the quarter panel and roof panel fully finished. THEN, about six months later (after the paint has fully cured), get the new vinyl roof fabric installed.

3M designed a product called "Alumalead" just for the lower back glass "rust-through" on GM cars with the sloped rear glasses. Most of them were rusted within 5 years from new. Chryslers took much longer. You can't estimate what is needed until you get everything taken off and cleaned. You CAN taolk about "worst case scenarios", which will include some metal fab for the corners.

In many cases, taking trim off of a 1970s-era car can be easier said than done UNLESS you have successfully done it before. INCLUDING the chrome drip rail molding. Any replacement moldings and such reside ONLY in the salvage yard, as a general rule.

Rocket Restorations is in Oregon. They have a YouTube channel, IIRC. It is obvious they are "Mopar Oriented". Not sure how close you might be to them. I've only seen their YouTube stuff.

The price of an OEM-level paint job (current OEM, that is, which is what the painter should be used to providing) has increased a good bit from what it was even 10 yrs ago. Be prepared for a "high price" to mean that corner body shop does nto want to do anything as old as your car. As to them, it can be "taking up space" in a stall that could otherwise producing profits. Just an advisory . . .

DO get a written estimate with the understanding that if anything unusual (and more costly) is uncovered, you WILL be notified to come and look at it and approve the additional work!

ALSO get some pictures, before and after, to present to your insurance company for your file. For general principles should any later damage to the car happen, that is covered by their policy.

BE prepared . . . the bright trim on the car now, that looks good, will not look that way against the new paint. So plan on doing some polishing to get it so it looks "more new". For body side trim, Chrysler used anodized aluminum, as the front/rear window moldings are stainless steel. Treat the anodized items like "weathered paint" as the stainless will polish up easily.

SAME "looks good now", but not so much with new paint, with the interior.

-- You MIGHT want to get the vinyl roof stuff done first. Letting them paint the roof area and blend the paint into the lowr areas on the rar body. Then, when money permits, get the rest of the car painted in the same OEM color. This can also allow them to fine-tune the color for the best color match. Just have them document the color formula and source on the repair order so they can duplicate it later on. This might be more "wallet friendly" to do it in segments.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67

DO NOT use TCP Global - it has changed hands recently apparently and no longer have any interest in matching original colors closely - all they are interested in supplying is something that is what they consider "close" but is nothing really close at all. Trust me, I lost around $1500 with them because I was unaware of their new ownership. I really can't understand what kind of business case they are pursuing since collectors was exact matches that the previous company was very good at but the new one company is not interested in. Who wants colors that are "close" but ugly, at least in my case?

 

[Big_John]

* Should the car be painted before the roof is repaired and recovered in a new vinyl roof? Or does the order not matter?
* In repairing the c-pillar rust, does the interior headliner need to be removed? (I was wondering if you have to do any welding, it might destroy the headliner.)

At the very least, pull the vinyl off and see what's there before committing to do the rest.

* Is it worth it to upgrade the paint to a two-stage paint (with clear coat)

Yes, the results are worth it with metallic paint.

* Are their any tasks that you can do to help defray the cost of painting? (trim removal, etc)

IMHO, you are better off removing and installing trim yourself. Body shops loose stuff all the time. Saves $$ too.

* What are the things to look for when selecting a paint shop?

There's three things that you want our of a shop: Reasonable cost, fast turnaround and good quality. You can only pick two.

Don't go for the shop that says "They will work on it when they are slow". That's almost a guaranty of never finishing and you hauling the car out, unfinished with missing parts, in two or three years. I've seen that many times. Even saw a couple times where the shop closed without warning.

Ask around is the best advice. People will tell you what's good and what's bad.

 

[CBODY67]

@saforwardlook , THANKS for that information! Sounds like another "hedgefund buy-out" to me, where the new owners saw $$$$ without really knowing what it took to get there, OR sought to make more $$$$$$ from it as "the other guys were not doing it right"?

As @Big_John notes, ANY shop that perceives they can use an old car paint job/body work to "fill-in" is NOT the shop you want to use. They should treat it like any other job, as to production quality in the finished product. Just like they do for newer cars and their collision repairs. SAME level of paint quality too.

One thing I did not mention is that "DO NOT" even hint at the finished car being "show quality" or similar. Reason I say that is that the vast majority of OEM paint jobs on any newer brand of vehicle meets or exceeds what we used to term "show quality" paint, period. Which is what they are now producing every day of the year (or should be to garner repeat business). No need to pay more for what they should be delivering anyway, to me. And the BC/CC paint needs to look like that, anyway. The prices will be high enough as they are, usually.

Other than the outside of the car getting repainted, you will also need to determine if you want the inner door areas and door jambs painted, front fender/hood edges, trunk lid edges and such, too. Something else to consider and something you will probably be asked about. DO NOT take anything for granted. Y'all detail everything that will be done by the body shop BEFORE they start work, in writing on the repair estimate.

Good luck,
CBODY67

 

[Samplingman]

Can you post pics of this car and the paint/rust issues? Are you sure it's original paint? Absolutely do not do anything until you get that roof off and assess the damage. May of us have seen the results of an "easy restoration" and how deep that rabbit hole will get.

Here’s a picture of what was underneath “a little paint bubbling” on the roof of a non-vinyl car.

 

[413]

Post #2 is spot on, fix the roof first.

The car is huge, it will be expansive.

Almost impossible to find anyone to spray a single stage metallic paint these days.

 

[ayilar]

@Rubatoguy -- Have a look at the threads for Medina, my 1971 Monaco and of Buttercup, my 1972 NYB, for examples of what was found under the vinyl top around the bubbles and how it was fixed/painted/"re-vinyled" over. I was lucky to have @71Polara383 for the identification of the issues and the repairs, and @azblackhemi for the paint.

@azblackhemi has posted in the Medina thread how he matched the original GY9 paint.

 

[Rubatoguy]

Azblackhemi knows what he's talking about and has the pictures to prove it! I agree with everything he stated and will add, that it sounds like you're going to be putting the vinyl roof back on? If that's the case the back window and windshield really should come out, along with the gutter trim above the side windows.

Social media may be a way to find a good body shop, asking around at a classic car show would be better. Insurance reimbursement is a factor, alot of shops won't even consider working on old cars. Too many unknowns, (most) newer techs wouldn't know the intricacies of the oldies. I had a windshield installed on my '06 Magnum a few months ago, while I was there I figured I would ask if they could get a 725, same windshield as your 300. They said they don't work on cars older than 1997. I told them I'd install it myself if they could just check their distributor, didn't have one!

The white vinyl top is missing under the bottom of the rear window, and there is clearly some rust at the C pillar seam.

 

[Rubatoguy]

To me, there is nothing wrong with single-stage acrylic enamel with hardener, BUT as every shop's painter is used to shooting BC/CC, let them shoot what they are the most comfortable with. Getting an identical color match to what the orig color was originally can be a trick, possibly, all things considered. Although TCPGlobal.com can provide it both ways, I suspect.

Get that vinyl roof removed and look at what is under it. It'll probably be worse than you expected, even if the vinyl is still soft enough for a fingernail imprint.

Get the whole car painted, INCLUDING the top where the vinyl was. It was not painted or the sheet metal joint between the quarter panel and roof panel fully finished. THEN, about six months later (after the paint has fully cured), get the new vinyl roof fabric installed.

3M designed a product called "Alumalead" just for the lower back glass "rust-through" on GM cars with the sloped rear glasses. Most of them were rusted within 5 years from new. Chryslers took much longer. You can't estimate what is needed until you get everything taken off and cleaned. You CAN taolk about "worst case scenarios", which will include some metal fab for the corners.

In many cases, taking trim off of a 1970s-era car can be easier said than done UNLESS you have successfully done it before. INCLUDING the chrome drip rail molding. Any replacement moldings and such reside ONLY in the salvage yard, as a general rule.

Rocket Restorations is in Oregon. They have a YouTube channel, IIRC. It is obvious they are "Mopar Oriented". Not sure how close you might be to them. I've only seen their YouTube stuff.

The price of an OEM-level paint job (current OEM, that is, which is what the painter should be used to providing) has increased a good bit from what it was even 10 yrs ago. Be prepared for a "high price" to mean that corner body shop does nto want to do anything as old as your car. As to them, it can be "taking up space" in a stall that could otherwise producing profits. Just an advisory . . .

DO get a written estimate with the understanding that if anything unusual (and more costly) is uncovered, you WILL be notified to come and look at it and approve the additional work!

ALSO get some pictures, before and after, to present to your insurance company for your file. For general principles should any later damage to the car happen, that is covered by their policy.

BE prepared . . . the bright trim on the car now, that looks good, will not look that way against the new paint. So plan on doing some polishing to get it so it looks "more new". For body side trim, Chrysler used anodized aluminum, as the front/rear window moldings are stainless steel. Treat the anodized items like "weathered paint" as the stainless will polish up easily.

SAME "looks good now", but not so much with new paint, with the interior.

-- You MIGHT want to get the vinyl roof stuff done first. Letting them paint the roof area and blend the paint into the lowr areas on the rar body. Then, when money permits, get the rest of the car painted in the same OEM color. This can also allow them to fine-tune the color for the best color match. Just have them document the color formula and source on the repair order so they can duplicate it later on. This might be more "wallet friendly" to do it in segments.

Just some thoughts and observations,
CBODY67

Looks like Rocket Restorations is actually in Olympia, WA. About 100 miles from me which is not terrible. I'll contact them and see. Thank you!

 

[Rubatoguy]

Post #2 is spot on, fix the roof first.

The car is huge, it will be expansive.

Almost impossible to find anyone to spray a single stage metallic paint these days.

LOL. I figured on that. I had a VW bug convertible painted 25 years ago and I had removed all the trim etc. beforehand. I was still dumbfounded at the cost.

 

[Big_John]

Looks like Rocket Restorations is actually in Olympia, WA. About 100 miles from me which is not terrible. I'll contact them and see. Thank you!

@tallzag

 

[Samplingman]

@tallzag

They are probably a bit preoccupied right now trying to get the V Code SFGT ready to ship to MCACAN by Wednesday.

 

[tallzag]

Yes we are, send me a PM and can reply.