Thought on unobtainium parts

Wonderwagon

Wonderwagon

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Just reading a thread in for sale 1970 300 Hurst, concerning the 300H cars. 65MonacoND commented that we part out cars due to the unavailable sheet metal parts. Passing thought, in another hobby I was active in, a group of folks pooled resources to get things made that were not available which heloped proprigate that segment. Has any thought ever been given to do the same with trunk pans, rear quarter patch panels and the like? Especially the torsion bar bushings? So basically a subscription for parts, initial, for RD, production and a inventory held by whomever. Just a passing thought
 
When it comes to sheetmetal (floorpans, 1/4s, etc) you need to invest tens of thousands of dollars into tooling to make just one particular, decent part. To say nothing of actually producing it. As long as you can buy unrusted convertibles for less than $3k, you'll never make a dime.

1967 Chrysler Newport Convertible 383

For things like lenses, emblems, plastic trim, bushings or anything that can be 3D printed, you've got a chance.
 
I wish we could get something together for reproduction sheet metal. Floor pans, Trunk pans, 1/4 patches that'd be great, that way we can stop cutting up clean run of the mill c bodies to save the projects we already have.
 
71Polara383 said:
I wish we could get something together for reproduction sheet metal. Floor pans, Trunk pans, 1/4 patches that'd be great, that way we can stop cutting up clean run of the mill c bodies to save the projects we already have.
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Likely not going to happen anytime soon for the reasons mentioned above.
You can get a little creative and (using reproduction parts available for B bodys), modify and fab to fit your C body
 
bluefury361 said:
Likely not going to happen anytime soon for the reasons mentioned above.
You can get a little creative and (using reproduction parts available for B bodys), modify and fab to fit your C body
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Fabrication skills are a must have when tackling a rusty C
 
Is tens of thousands based on actual conversations, with say AMD or anyone to do the torsion bar bushings? As far as 3D Printing the initial file for production of station wagon rear interior pieces is about 2 grand and about 700.00 per piece after that, gor an estimate from a CA based company. Know based on that, Initial Mold making would be based off of a 3D scan of good sheet metal, with tooling made probably made with CNC, just my guess. Passing thought
 
couple of sources for anyone to start with considering sheet metal (definitely 10's of thousands before stamping ONE part as Carmine noted).

i also agree with others above on 3D printing options for certain parts MAY have a chance ..depending on volume/complexity etc too.

so even with Asian tools/manufacturing, I don't think the volume is there to justify the investment in sheet metal parts of the size C-s tend to need.

sources of info.

"cliff notes": Progressive Stamping vs. Short-Run Stamping | Service Stampings Incorporated

more "cliff notes": Die Science: Estimating die cost

same drill, different source: How Much Does Sheet Metal Stamping Cost? | Intran Blog
 
Wonderwagon said:
Is tens of thousands based on actual conversations, with say AMD or anyone to do the torsion bar bushings? As far as 3D Printing the initial file for production of station wagon rear interior pieces is about 2 grand and about 700.00 per piece after that, gor an estimate from a CA based company. Know based on that, Initial Mold making would be based off of a 3D scan of good sheet metal, with tooling made probably made with CNC, just my guess. Passing thought
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It's based on working in a place that actually makes floor pans for Chrysler products as a younger man. This is what the "machine" looks like:

fca-warren-stamping-plant-servo-tandem-press-side-view.jpg


Note the size of the man walking past. Now all you need to do is build about 5 die sets (each the size of a car, weighing about 25,000 lbs). Granted, AMD and the Chinese take a lot of shortcuts that aren't required for small-scale stamping, but not enough shortcuts to get the >10 sets you might be able to sell down to a reasonable per-unit cost. If you want to make something that comes with a Class-A surface (exterior panels) add some zeros. Only restorations of musclecars will support that cost, not many of those left for $1500-$3000, and those are your competition.

Something like a bushing fits a lot more vehicles and the molds are easily fabricated from tubing stock, etc.
 
We got a quote from Steele Rubber years ago for creating a mold for 55' Studebaker rear door vent wing glass (left & right side). $3,000. Our demand was one set... so I think it's obvious those molds were never made.

Carmine said:
For things like lenses, emblems, plastic trim, bushings or anything that can be 3D printed, you've got a chance.
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This is something I'm curious about as my 65' Chrysler has the clear tail light lenses, which have several sun/age related cracks and we all know how hard and expensive the clear lenses are to find. I have thought about seeing if someone could reproduce them for a reasonable price.
 
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Carmine said:
It's based on working in a place that actually makes floor pans for Chrysler products as a younger man. This is what the "machine" looks like:

View attachment 148384

Note the size of the man walking past. Now all you need to do is build about 5 die sets (each the size of a car, weighing about 25,000 lbs). Granted, AMD and the Chinese take a lot of shortcuts that aren't required for small-scale stamping, but not enough shortcuts to get the >10 sets you might be able to sell down to a reasonable per-unit cost. If you want to make something that comes with a Class-A surface (exterior panels) add some zeros. Only restorations of musclecars will support that cost, not many of those left for $1500-$3000, and those are your competition.

Something like a bushing fits a lot more vehicles and the molds are easily fabricated from tubing stock, etc.
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CLean plant.

Anyway, I'll pile on but point may already be made on stampings -- even if you used what they called "soft tools" in the old days ya just cant get there from here.

 
Carmine said:
For things like lenses, emblems, plastic trim, bushings or anything that can be 3D printed, you've got a chance.
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Indeed. I started to reproduce last year power windows plastic connectors for '57-'59 Mopar cars, using 3D laser printing technology.

DSC02189.JPG

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DSC02191.JPG
 
I wonder how the Amish feel about using an English wheel? That's how we get barns and decent furniture in Michigan.
 
Don't forget about Sherman Parts! They were producing patch panels and also have some floorpan sections for C-body cars of the '70s. Granted, much can be fabricated by an energetic worker, just as race car wheel tubs and interior panels are done. Getting that done in OEM-thickness metal would be a trick. At the Bulgari compound in PA, a worker was seen "reproducing"/restoring a quarter panel on a '53 Chevy car, three inch section at a time, as no good ones were available (that they could find). It all relates to money, desire, and quality workmanship.

The reason that few '59-era Chrysler New Yorker 2-dr hardtops exist is that so many were salvaged to rebuild/restore the much more desirable ($$$$$$) 300 Letter Cars. Now, that orig '59 New Yorker is quite rare.

Or those large number of Chryslers that had their engines removed to support racing activities, leaving the rest of the car to "return to the earth". Not unique to the Chrysler brand, though.

Back in the '80s, a young guy showed up at a local salvage yard looking for parts for his '70 Plymouth Valiant. The owner said he had a few. After looking at the one the guy was driving, he offered him a trade for one of the better ones he had in the yard. The young gay was not expecting that, but took the deal and he came out ahead in the deal! LOL How he explained it to his friends/family might have been "different". "I went looking for a fender and ended up with a 'new' car."

CBODY67
 
Carmine said:
I wonder how the Amish feel about using an English wheel? That's how we get barns and decent furniture in Michigan.
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They use that word "Amish" for any wooden piece of furniture or shed around here... Doesn't really matter about the quality. As long as someone there drove through Pennsylvania at some point, that's good enough.

There is a really good Amish store that sells meat and specialty food items not too far from here. The folks appear to really be Amish too... Gas lighting etc. ... But they do run your credit card electronically and they have a Facebook page.
 
Additional thought . . . considering what the hobby went through in the earlier 1908s when OEMs got concerned with people re-popping copyrighted/trademarked items on vehicles, even the intense actions Chrysler lawyers took against the old 'MoPerformance" magazine, before the current licensing agreements were prevalent, doing things as "exact matches" could be troublesome. This explains the slight variations in dash pad "grains", or similar, UNLESS the item is licensed by the OEM. The licensing allows the producer to use the exact factory blueprints to reproduce the item, plus meeting the same quality control measures the original producer did for the original parts. Some costs involved in this, too. Just to get to the actual production of the item will be expensive. But in a floor pan section, for example, not drilling the holes or having shorter reinforcing imprints can be all it takes, as the off-shore people did with their knock-off sheet metal earlier on. Or if they do a quality piece that needs some trimming for best fits, that can work too, rather than a "drop-in and nail it down" sheet metal piece as came from the factory.

Smaller lenses are easy to do with existing "hobby" products. Machined parts can be done relatively easy, too. We've all seen the many hot rod "build" shows on tv, so it's all limited by ability, materials, $$$$$, and desire. It just takes a little more time and such to re-skin the quarter on a '72 Chrysler than for a door skin on a '40 Ford.

Can't forget about how the limo builders do their extensions and get factory approval on what they do. Or the street rod industry-type people. either.

CBODY67
 
amazinblue82 said:
CLean plant.

Anyway, I'll pile on but point may already be made on stampings -- even if you used what they called "soft tools" in the old days ya just cant get there from here.

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Thanks I liked that... in high school I joined a BSA Explorers group for engineering and our sponsor company was Wean United, who built those machines. We did tour the Fisher Body plant in West Mifflin PA one time... they were stamping Fiero floor pans and Monte Carlo doors at the time.

It was cool seeing the QC guys take oiled doors into a room with black/blue lights to spot defects. As it turned out I wasn't ready for college and it wasn't as inspiring as you might think listening to a bunch of middle aged steel plant engineers in Pittsburgh during 1985...
 
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