Old muscle cars vs new/Uncle Tony at Carlisle

[Joseph James]

Pretty good video.

 

[Big_John]

I watched that the other day and I agree 100% with him on this.

 

[polara71]

Damn he can talk in redundancy

 

[Dsertdog]

Wow!
The guy walks through Carlisle and suddenly he's a multicultural expert on Car Culture. He's as clueless as a Cockatoo on Crack.

I'm a straddler...I guess. It sounds like a label, and I hate labels We'll talk about the "cultural" gap in a moment.

Before we go any further though, let me pose a thought. I formed this theory years ago. It is...Mopar owners are their own worst enemies. You can quote me.

Owning two modern vehicles, I don't go to swap meets. Don't need to. Most everything is online. That way I don't have to walk through acres of over priced and broken, rusty NOS parts. There's a whole underground network out there. BTW modern muscle guys bring stuff to swap meets for modern muscle. Maybe not Carlise...but I bet I would have found parts if they were there.

Dirty finger nails. Us late owners got 'em. I still do as much as I can, as my age and condition lets me. Plenty of younger guys crawl under cars to install headers and exhausts. It's no easier that putting them on a big block C body. Guys put in cams, heads, port, polish, build stroker engines, etc. I see it, I read about it, I watch the videos. It's big time. Then the older guys say "But the computer, you can't tune 'em! That's a cop out. There's a number of guys out there that really know their stuff, and like the guys that knew how to set a carb and advance curve, these guys do the same but with one's and zeros. Guys like Mr.Tony, totally miss it. Actually, he doesn't care to look. And that's worse!
I get plenty dirty thrashing on my new stuff. There's skin and blood on every one of my vehicles.

So, what about this "cultural gap" We old guys did that, and I hate what we've done. It started in the 1980's when the front wheel turbo cars came out, then rocketed out of sight when the four door Charger was released in 2006...such an abomination it was, and yet it outsold all other years of Charger production in it's first year. Then the New Challenger came out, which was a closer rep of the old one, so "we" sorta accepted "them". Well, as much as we had too. The Ram trucks and the rest..meh.

Well...we "old guys" ....we couldn't have this crap. So "we" made sure these new cars and their owners would always know their place.

If they insisted on showing those new cars in our shows with our classics, we placed them in the outermost sections, away from our beloved old muscle cars. We made sure they had their own trophies, if we offered them, or put them in with the older cars and made sure they never won. We begrudged their existence, much like this Tony guy did in the video.
Tony couldn't get excited about the Demon. It sounds like the hot rod guys with their roadsters in the early 60's begrudging the new muscle cars.
So I guess that's where "we" got it from. And we learned nothing from history so we repeated it. And that's where the cultural gap comes from. And there's a backlash too. These newer guys with the cars, many of them hate and begrudge us too. Geezer cars, that's the term. Geezer...another label. I hate labels

Remember... Mopar owners are their own worst enemies! But lets stop being enemies.

Here's my final thoughts. Before "we" become ancient history, let's get rid of the gap. Invite the new guys to park next to you. Talk to them. Find the common ground. Compare apples to apples. Do yourself of favor, be brave, and take a test drive in an SRT Charger. Any one will work.

I love my old Polara. But I cherish my Ram and am absolutely enamored with our '06 Charger. That's how a real Moparian should be.

 

[Cazman]

It makes a bit of sense. Home Depot is very scared about the new generations, that they do not really know how to or want to fix things around the home. The new gens might be into cars, but at a different level than the older gens. Most mods for the new gens are more bolt-on or a shop will do it, as Uncle Tony said. I guess they want more weekend mods compared to someone like me and my 3 year restoration plan. I have been waiting for decades to do a car "right" and look forward to it. It's not going to come in an Amazon box on my front porch. But, this may be good for us that have restored the cars - a new market to sell a completed car too someday?????

 

[1978 NYB]

I have 2 old Mopar and 2 modern Mopar's.

I was 17 in 1971 when I bought my first car a 1969 Super Bee for $1750. A new Hemi Super Bee was more than twice that back then. I wanted one but just couldn't swing it. There certainly wasn't any swaps selling rusty Mopar stuff back then. Everyone got their go fast stuff from speed shops back then. Today it's the internet for the modern muscle go fast stuff. Look at all of the Scat Pack and Hellcat video's on the internet. Most of the guys on the video's are 30 years old or less. I'm telling you that the next car craze is going to be the Mopar L platform especially anything with a 6.1L, 6.2L, or a 6.4L. If you take a moment and talk to these modern muscle guys like I did at Carlisle, you'll find out that they are as passionate about the modern muscle Mopar's as we are about C-bodies. And they are pretty smart when it comes to making power with modern muscle. I was amazed with the conversations that I had with these kids.

 

[1978 NYB]

BTW, go to your local dragstrip and see the number of people racing modern muscle Mopar's. There is a lot of them!!! Very friendly kids that will share what they are doing and wrenching to go fast.

 

[polara71]

Most of the metric YouTube vids are young guns.

 

[Joseph James]

It makes a bit of sense. Home Depot is very scared about the new generations, that they do not really know how to or want to fix things around the home. The new gens might be into cars, but at a different level than the older gens. Most mods for the new gens are more bolt-on or a shop will do it, as Uncle Tony said. I guess they want more weekend mods compared to someone like me and my 3 year restoration plan. I have been waiting for decades to do a car "right" and look forward to it. It's not going to come in an Amazon box on my front porch. But, this may be good for us that have restored the cars - a new market to sell a completed car too someday?????

I have taught community college classes and had 20 ish year olds who didn’t know what a crescent wrench was. I didn’t give them a hard time. I just assumed they had no dad or uncle or someone around to teach them. So, there is something to be said about Home Depot’s fears.

I may have gotten something different from the video than some of you. Tony said whatever level of depth in the hobby you have is cool. There are plenty of wealthy guys who buy a restored car or pay for someone to do it. I am sure there are young people wrenching or programming modern Mopars.

We are all products of our times. Things change and he may not be noticing because his thing is what was going on in the late 1970s as he has said in previous videos.

I like my Fury a lot. If I could, I would buy a new Challenger. I like em all, just partial to C bodies.

 

[Dsertdog]

It makes a bit of sense. Home Depot is very scared about the new generations, that they do not really know how to or want to fix things around the home. The new gens might be into cars, but at a different level than the older gens. Most mods for the new gens are more bolt-on or a shop will do it, as Uncle Tony said. I guess they want more weekend mods compared to someone like me and my 3 year restoration plan. I have been waiting for decades to do a car "right" and look forward to it. It's not going to come in an Amazon box on my front porch. But, this may be good for us that have restored the cars - a new market to sell a completed car too someday?????

When these "classic" cars were new, we only did weekend mods. As a young man, I spent many a weekend pounding headers into cars, intakes, cams, etc. Air shocks, shackles, rear end swaps, Intake manifolds, carbs, etc. My car was my daily, I had to be at work on Monday.
We weren't restoring, we were destroying them for today's restorers. The irony makes me giggle like a mad scientist.
And I can tell you, despite Tony's assertions, most young guys don't want geezer cars.. I don't blame them. Too much trouble compared to today's stuff.

 

[Dsertdog]

I have taught community college classes and had 20 ish year olds who didn’t know what a crescent wrench was. I didn’t give them a hard time. I just assumed they had no dad or uncle or someone around to teach them. So, there is something to be said about Home Depot’s fears.

I may have gotten something different from the video than some of you. Tony said whatever level of depth in the hobby you have is cool. There are plenty of wealthy guys who buy a restored car or pay for someone to do it. I am sure there are young people wrenching or programming modern Mopars.

We are all products of our times. Things change and he may not be noticing because his thing is what was going on in the late 1970s as he has said in previous videos.

I like my Fury a lot. If I could, I would buy a new Challenger. I like em all, just partial to C bodies.

If the guy wants to live in the 70's he should stay there and not make negative remarks about something he very ignorant about. I'm sure a lot of his target audience loves it, but as one of his "targets" I believe he's a bit of a jerk, and worse, not a true Mopar lover.

 

[1978 NYB]

It goes both ways....

I know people that are 50 and can't change a flat tire.

I have worked with Soldiers (in their 20's, some in their late teens that can troubleshoot and repair the most complex trucks, tanks, and equipment that the military has. I've worked with engineer's (some in their mid 20's and a lot of them from Penn State) at the Army Test Center that are incredibly smart and can mitigate major problems. During the major part of the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan we had a running battle with ISIS and others to defeat threats from IED's and other threats.

 

[Big_John]

If the guy wants to live in the 70's he should stay there and not make negative remarks about something he very ignorant about. I'm sure a lot of his target audience loves it, but as one of his "targets" I believe he's a bit of a jerk, and worse, not a true Mopar lover.

I understand you disagreeing, but Tony DeFeo (Uncle Tony) has been around for a long time. He was one of the guys that started Mopar Action Magazine and one of the other Mopar mags (can't remember right the name right now). He also was one of the first guys to start running the 5.0 Mustang when it was new. IMHO, he's got the credentials to say what he wants, agree or disagree with him. I've read a lot of his work over the years and started watching his You Tube channel when I discovered it.

I know a lot of older guys with the Metric Challengers. Some are very "hands on" and there are some that let someone else do the work. Personally, the cars don't do anything for me... I kind of understand the following, but I couldn't care less about them. Lot's of guys don't like C bodies either so it's personal taste. As far as shows and cruise nights, I don't care... The more the merrier.

 

[Turboomni]

 

[Dsertdog]

I understand you disagreeing, but Tony DeFeo (Uncle Tony) has been around for a long time. He was one of the guys that started Mopar Action Magazine and one of the other Mopar mags (can't remember right the name right now). He also was one of the first guys to start running the 5.0 Mustang when it was new. IMHO, he's got the credentials to say what he wants, agree or disagree with him. I've read a lot of his work over the years and started watching his You Tube channel when I discovered it.

I know a lot of older guys with the Metric Challengers. Some are very "hands on" and there are some that let someone else do the work. Personally, the cars don't do anything for me... I kind of understand the following, but I couldn't care less about them. Lot's of guys don't like C bodies either so it's personal taste. As far as shows and cruise nights, I don't care... The more the merrier.

Big John, I have a lot of respect for your knowledge. I'd hazard you know as much if not more than Uncle Tony.
After reading who "Uncle Tony" is, I do remember the 5.0 Mustang and Mopar action
But, it's not the first time I've debated with a magazine editor or "media guy" about something they thought they understood based on their quick observations, and it probably won't be the last.
It's my belief that ANYONE that's messed with Mopars a long time has "credentials" You have credentials, and so do I. My love for Mopars goes back a long ways. Ok 1968, long before I could drive them. The difference between us and guys like Uncle Tony is that he banged some articles out in Magazines and we didn't. That doesn't given him any more cred in my book. If anything it places him under more scrutiny.
I don't know how many followers he has, nor do I care. But when he makes any statement(s) that can open a wider rift between classic and modern enthusiasts, Then I have to disagree. I know too many of Mopar owners that have both. Most could care less about him and his opinion. MY whole point...don't be sucked into it. Don't become mired in an era. Don't be be your worst enemy. If I were a "media guy" I would do everything I could to promote every kind of Mopar made, except Horizons with the Volkswagen engine.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

He is going to the wrong places. No you will not find a lot of stuff for late models in the swap at Carlisle. Go to Norwalk or the Nat's and you can find plenty of late model take offs, pulled engines from every kind of wreck, ported heads for every displacement gen 3 Hemi.
No, nobody is putting Hellcat engines in Fiat based Darts, too much wheel reinventing. A lot of what he is talking about, bolting on and swapping years ago was better in theory than in real life. Now the PCM will let you know the crappy bolt on did not work with the check engine light coming on. Years ago it was "I can feel the difference". No it gave gave you back what your out of tune car was lacking, if you would have changed the air filter and points and plugs you would be at the same place.
I loved his articles back in the day. "12.99 for $1299" was a ultimate throwdown. Now what the hell for Bob is already running 11.80s with a stock car. He is not wrong just looking in the wrong place.

 

[Big_John]

Big John, I have a lot of respect for your knowledge. I'd hazard you know as much if not more than Uncle Tony.
After reading who "Uncle Tony" is, I do remember the 5.0 Mustang and Mopar action
But, it's not the first time I've debated with a magazine editor or "media guy" about something they thought they understood based on their quick observations, and it probably won't be the last.
It's my belief that ANYONE that's messed with Mopars a long time has "credentials" You have credentials, and so do I. My love for Mopars goes back a long ways. Ok 1968, long before I could drive them. The difference between us and guys like Uncle Tony is that he banged some articles out in Magazines and we didn't. That doesn't given him any more cred in my book. If anything it places him under more scrutiny.
I don't know how many followers he has, nor do I care. But when he makes any statement(s) that can open a wider rift between classic and modern enthusiasts, Then I have to disagree. I know too many of Mopar owners that have both. Most could care less about him and his opinion. MY whole point...don't be sucked into it. Don't become mired in an era. Don't be be your worst enemy. If I were a "media guy" I would do everything I could to promote every kind of Mopar made, except Horizons with the Volkswagen engine.

Thank you for the compliment.

I don't agree with Tony all the time, although I do find his outlook kind of refreshing from a low dollar "let's have some fun" aspect. As far as magazine editors/writers go, I don't put a lot of faith in their abilities or knowledge. A long time ago, I figured out that the article about XYZ headers and how great they are is often followed by a full page ad for XYZ headers, so I take everything they write with a grain of salt. I've also tangled with them a time or two. I met a number of them over the years and some are good guys and some don't impress me. I wanted to point out that he has been around a bit and isn't new on the scene.

I don't subscribe to any of the mags and rarely read them anymore. Too much fluff and the tech stuff isn't what I need.

I watched part of his video again and I'm still in agreement with him. At Carlisle and the places I've been, I don't see the used parts for the newer cars. As Dave just said, maybe he (and I) aren't going where the new parts are. The guys that I know are buying more new "go fast" goodies and then I see guys that are buying "billet" type ad on "appearance" stuff (BTW, I hate billet). But, I didn't take it as a put down of the newer cars, just an observation that there are some differences.

Tony has been doing some different things with the videos. I think he's exploring what works and what doesn't. Lately he's done a couple really basic "how to" videos that I think are needed... He's got a young following that doesn't know how to pack bearings, so he's trying to teach. I do like that.

A couple things that are kind of funny to me though... I've been to the Corvette event at Carlisle a few times and those guys, with the newer Corvette don't buy a lot of used stuff either. What they do have is a lot of "installers" with lifts and the whole nine yards, putting exhaust systems etc. on the newer Corvettes. I even saw tents where they were wet sanding and buffing the cars. This may be the way the Metric Challenger guys are headed... I don't know.

The other thing that's funny is we went through this once before when 60's muscle cars started showing up at shows in the 70's. History is repeating itself.

But, it is good to get the discussion going. The new cars are becoming more and more common on cruises etc. What's really funny is there's a few guys around here that are really upset that they can't bring their newer cars to the giant car show (Syracuse Nationals, 8000+ cars) that's in town this weekend. They have a 35 year old cut off.

Oh... and I kind of liked the VW engined Horizon I had. LOL.

 

[mdh157]

I drove one of the new challengers and they have the beltline so darn high you cannot see out the side or rear windows. That is the main reason I do not have one right now. With the acceleration and handling in todays cars I do not understand the need for speed mods.....I mean, how much smoother can you make them? I have considered a charger but have not had a chance to drive one yet. Too bad they don't have a stick available.

 

[Dsertdog]

Thank you for the compliment.

I don't agree with Tony all the time, although I do find his outlook kind of refreshing from a low dollar "let's have some fun" aspect. As far as magazine editors/writers go, I don't put a lot of faith in their abilities or knowledge. A long time ago, I figured out that the article about XYZ headers and how great they are is often followed by a full page ad for XYZ headers, so I take everything they write with a grain of salt. I've also tangled with them a time or two. I met a number of them over the years and some are good guys and some don't impress me. I wanted to point out that he has been around a bit and isn't new on the scene.

I don't subscribe to any of the mags and rarely read them anymore. Too much fluff and the tech stuff isn't what I need.

I watched part of his video again and I'm still in agreement with him. At Carlisle and the places I've been, I don't see the used parts for the newer cars. As Dave just said, maybe he (and I) aren't going where the new parts are. The guys that I know are buying more new "go fast" goodies and then I see guys that are buying "billet" type ad on "appearance" stuff (BTW, I hate billet). But, I didn't take it as a put down of the newer cars, just an observation that there are some differences.

Tony has been doing some different things with the videos. I think he's exploring what works and what doesn't. Lately he's done a couple really basic "how to" videos that I think are needed... He's got a young following that doesn't know how to pack bearings, so he's trying to teach. I do like that.

A couple things that are kind of funny to me though... I've been to the Corvette event at Carlisle a few times and those guys, with the newer Corvette don't buy a lot of used stuff either. What they do have is a lot of "installers" with lifts and the whole nine yards, putting exhaust systems etc. on the newer Corvettes. I even saw tents where they were wet sanding and buffing the cars. This may be the way the Metric Challenger guys are headed... I don't know.

The other thing that's funny is we went through this once before when 60's muscle cars started showing up at shows in the 70's. History is repeating itself.

But, it is good to get the discussion going. The new cars are becoming more and more common on cruises etc. What's really funny is there's a few guys around here that are really upset that they can't bring their newer cars to the giant car show (Syracuse Nationals, 8000+ cars) that's in town this weekend. They have a 35 year old cut off.

Oh... and I kind of liked the VW engined Horizon I had. LOL.

Thanks Big John

No one hates "billet cars" more than me...and yet my Ram has billet...and lots of stainless fasteners, and a couple of homemade pieces. I robbed the billet stuff from the Jeep guys. They hate that! And when I started with the appearance stuff, no one was doing it. They've never made the stuff for 2nd gens.

Perhaps your Horizon experience was a bit different. Mine started with the carb dying, that no one could get a kit or a rebuilt for...and the price of the baseplate/gasket assembly which is needed to rotate the carb around to mount it. It was a unique Mopar part. I fought the car for 3 months or better and as soon as I got it fixed, I traded it for an Aspen R/T The "R" meaning rust. That's a story for another campfire.

And I'm out of here.

 

[Joseph James]

Thank you for the compliment.

I don't agree with Tony all the time, although I do find his outlook kind of refreshing from a low dollar "let's have some fun" aspect. As far as magazine editors/writers go, I don't put a lot of faith in their abilities or knowledge. A long time ago, I figured out that the article about XYZ headers and how great they are is often followed by a full page ad for XYZ headers, so I take everything they write with a grain of salt. I've also tangled with them a time or two. I met a number of them over the years and some are good guys and some don't impress me. I wanted to point out that he has been around a bit and isn't new on the scene.

I don't subscribe to any of the mags and rarely read them anymore. Too much fluff and the tech stuff isn't what I need.

I watched part of his video again and I'm still in agreement with him. At Carlisle and the places I've been, I don't see the used parts for the newer cars. As Dave just said, maybe he (and I) aren't going where the new parts are. The guys that I know are buying more new "go fast" goodies and then I see guys that are buying "billet" type ad on "appearance" stuff (BTW, I hate billet). But, I didn't take it as a put down of the newer cars, just an observation that there are some differences.

Tony has been doing some different things with the videos. I think he's exploring what works and what doesn't. Lately he's done a couple really basic "how to" videos that I think are needed... He's got a young following that doesn't know how to pack bearings, so he's trying to teach. I do like that.

A couple things that are kind of funny to me though... I've been to the Corvette event at Carlisle a few times and those guys, with the newer Corvette don't buy a lot of used stuff either. What they do have is a lot of "installers" with lifts and the whole nine yards, putting exhaust systems etc. on the newer Corvettes. I even saw tents where they were wet sanding and buffing the cars. This may be the way the Metric Challenger guys are headed... I don't know.

The other thing that's funny is we went through this once before when 60's muscle cars started showing up at shows in the 70's. History is repeating itself.

But, it is good to get the discussion going. The new cars are becoming more and more common on cruises etc. What's really funny is there's a few guys around here that are really upset that they can't bring their newer cars to the giant car show (Syracuse Nationals, 8000+ cars) that's in town this weekend. They have a 35 year old cut off.

Oh... and I kind of liked the VW engined Horizon I had. LOL.

I like his how to videos. I have forgotten a lot since my late teens early 20s when I couldn’t afford a mechanic but had to be at work on time. I am relearning and learning (because I never had a Mopar) before. The video on the carburetor basics featuring a BBD was perfect for me.

That said, I’m a libertarian. Your car your way to mod. I want my Fury like it rolled off the line. If someone wants to put a hood scoop on theirs and big tires like rubber bands that’s their thing.