1958 Plymouth fires up and then immediately dies!!!

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WikedPlymouth

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My 1958 Plymouth with a 318 has always started up and ran great. Last weekend it was idling for about 10 minutes when all of a sudden it died. It would crank and fire briefly and then immediately die.

I checked the fuel pump and it is pumping fuel. I changed the fuel filter and no change. I thought the carb might need a cleaning so I rebuilt the carb. The accelerator pump works, but nothing changed. It would fire and die. I tried using starting fluid but it would not stay running leading me to believe it is in the ignition. I pulled the cap and rotor and both look fine. I cleaned the points but that did not make a difference. I changed the condenser and no change. I don't see any vacuum leaks and the timing etc has not changed from when it was running fine. Once it dies I can pull the coil wire and crank it and it is getting spark.

Not sure what is next. I will check the coil and the voltage at the coil before and during cranking. Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
 
Did you swap out the ballast resistor? Your symptoms as described sound exactly like what happens when the ballast resistor takes a dump... will crank and fire, but won't continue to run when you release the key.
 
I agree. The ballast resistor is probably bad or the wiring. You could jump over it or from batt, to coil for a short time.
 
Have you thought about converting to electronic ignition ? That way your points will last longer, The. ignition coil could be going bad
 
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Hmm, electronic ignition uses a hall effect distributor unless you wire in an HEI module to the points?
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I've not thought about electronic ignition. The car has always ran well so did not see a need to swap. May consider this for the future. Should have a new ballast resistor here today so hopefully that will fix the problem. Thanks again for the suggestions.
 
Ross Wooldridge said:
Did you swap out the ballast resistor? Your symptoms as described sound exactly like what happens when the ballast resistor takes a dump... will crank and fire, but won't continue to run when you release the key.
Click to expand...
I believe that the ballast resistor is always in the circuit in the older cars.

In other words, with a newer car, the BR is bypassed when starting. I don't think it's bypassed in the older cars.

I could be wrong with this, but I looked at some '57 and '58 FSM wiring diagrams and that's what I'm seeing. I don't have a '58 Plymouth FSM, but this is from a '58 Chrysler FSM.

1760449433960.png
 
I couldn't remember if that was the case or not. If this truly is the case, then the issue is not the ballast resistor. The current ballast resistor's state can be measured right now by a multimeter.

If the car fires up while cranking, but dies when the key is released, then I might suspect the run circuit gets opened somehow, and so I'd be starting at the back of the ignition switch.

Thoughts @Big_John ?
 
Ross Wooldridge said:
I couldn't remember if that was the case or not. If this truly is the case, then the issue is not the ballast resistor. The current ballast resistor's state can be measured right now by a multimeter.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'd say easy to test.

Ross Wooldridge said:
If the car fires up while cranking, but dies when the key is released, then I might suspect the run circuit gets opened somehow, and so I'd be starting at the back of the ignition switch.
Click to expand...
There's really just one circuit, no separate run and start. From looking at the FSM wiring diagram, I think the key switch also is the starter switch (as opposed to a separate button) so it's possible the ignition switch is a problem, but I kind of doubt it.

I think the easy way to test would be to eliminate the ignition circuit and run a jumper wire from the battery to the coil and see what happens. That would bypass the entire ignition circuit, including the BR, so not for any use past trying it in the driveway.
 
Ross Wooldridge said:
I couldn't remember if that was the case or not. If this truly is the case, then the issue is not the ballast resistor. The current ballast resistor's state can be measured right now by a multimeter.

If the car fires up while cranking, but dies when the key is released, then I might suspect the run circuit gets opened somehow, and so I'd be starting at the back of the ignition switch.

Thoughts @Big_John ?
Click to expand...
Big John nailed that one, sounds ignition switch to me.
 
I had a '63 Plymouth that did that. Would start but not stay running. I went under the hood, couldn't find anything, swapped out the switch, still had the problem. I went back under the hood. It turned out that someone had stolen the ballast resistor! I hadn't noticed first time under the hood!
 
Well, I installed a new ballast resistor. I cranked the car and it fired up...ran smoothly for a little bit and then had a very erratic idle. I checked the battery cable connections and not sure how, but they were all lose so I tightened those up and it ran better but still seems to be a little erratic in the idle. I'm almost wondering if I got a bad ballast resistor. Will try jumping a wire straight to the coil this weekend to see if that fixes it. If it does, then I need "another" new ballast resistor.

It seems new parts are just not made with the same quality as the old parts. I always try and keep as many old parts as I can to avoid things like this.

Thanks again for all the help.
 
Unlikely to be a bad ballast causing erratic running - they either work or they don't.

Check the 12V feed to the coil - if it's old and brittle and happens to be rubbing against something metal on the engine, it can short out and either kill the motor from running, or make it run erratically as it arcs over. I had a similar problem with my car. Replaced the 12V feed to the coil with a new wire, and all good.
 
Just an update. Finished hooking up the battery. Cleaned up the terminals and made sure everything was tight. Started the car up and it ran perfectly. No erratic idle nothing. Not sure if there was an issue with the cables but it's now running great. I was going to swap in the old condenser but will keep that for the future if something changes. Sure is nice to have the car back to running status. Thanks again for all the help.
 
WikedPlymouth said:
Well, I installed a new ballast resistor. I cranked the car and it fired up...ran smoothly for a little bit and then had a very erratic idle. I checked the battery cable connections and not sure how, but they were all lose so I tightened those up and it ran better but still seems to be a little erratic in the idle. I'm almost wondering if I got a bad ballast resistor. Will try jumping a wire straight to the coil this weekend to see if that fixes it. If it does, then I need "another" new ballast resistor.

It seems new parts are just not made with the same quality as the old parts. I always try and keep as many old parts as I can to avoid things like this.

Thanks again for all the help.
Click to expand...
They can if they are the wrong ohms. Yours should be a .5-.6 ohm resistor. See how many ohms the new one is. Most are 1.2 ohms that you can buy today. Just check your FSM section 8
 
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