saylor
Senior Member
so all i have left is connect the driveshaft, and the broken transmission line fitting. then i get to try to start this thing.
1968 plymouth fury III PX23G8D243539 project
- Thread starter saylor
- Start date
saylor
Senior Member
one small step for man
what do ya think about all the brass dust and shavings? the threads look clean, but i can see some brass dust up in there. im gonna hit it with a vaccuum cleaner....
can i put compressor air thru the whole system? does that work or nah?
put fluid in it and run it for an hour then change the filter?
im headed over to summit racing to get a oiler primer stick, this stupid fitting, and the rest of the fluids i need. then i maybe will have this thing together today. maybe.
what do ya think about all the brass dust and shavings? the threads look clean, but i can see some brass dust up in there. im gonna hit it with a vaccuum cleaner....
can i put compressor air thru the whole system? does that work or nah?
put fluid in it and run it for an hour then change the filter?
im headed over to summit racing to get a oiler primer stick, this stupid fitting, and the rest of the fluids i need. then i maybe will have this thing together today. maybe.
Oil to the cooler comes from the torque converter control valve and return is for lubrication. I am not 100% sure where the lube oil returns. The good news is that it will be pushing the oil out of the valve body, so shouldn’t plug any valve body passages. Return for lube oil is kind of a mystery. In most hydraulic systems it passes through a filter before returning to use.
Besides the vacuum, if you have some type of sucker gun or large syringe ( even a turkey baster) on which you could connect a small hose to, I would use that to get even more debris out.
Besides the vacuum, if you have some type of sucker gun or large syringe ( even a turkey baster) on which you could connect a small hose to, I would use that to get even more debris out.
saylor
Senior Member
TIL - the driveshaft has to be installed before you put in transmission fluid...
also found the power steering pump that came w/ the 440 has a leak out the front side bottom. can i take the P/S pump off a 383 and bolt on? i think so yes pump + belt and good to go?
the leaky one is the big flywheel style.
cut a quick wire to try out a cold case fan and i keep popping 10A fuses as soon as I hook up a fan. something else to figure out. did put 3 gal into the radiator and its still not full. bigly. yuuge.
also found the power steering pump that came w/ the 440 has a leak out the front side bottom. can i take the P/S pump off a 383 and bolt on? i think so yes pump + belt and good to go?
the leaky one is the big flywheel style.
cut a quick wire to try out a cold case fan and i keep popping 10A fuses as soon as I hook up a fan. something else to figure out. did put 3 gal into the radiator and its still not full. bigly. yuuge.
saylor
Senior Member
the place is large.
saylor
Senior Member
stardate 2019.0811.1420 -
had a moment of clarity while trying to connect the driveshaft. could not get the u joint lined up with the yoke on the pumpkin. realized if i lift the rear end off the ground i could spin the rear wheel and turn the yoke where i needed it to match the driveshaft u joint position. blam installed it fastly after that.
removed dizzy and dizzy gear, and then fit the priming rod in and gave it about a minute of spin (counter clockwise). put gear and dizzy back and got in the driver seat. found a 1/4 cup of oil on the floor under the dash oil gauge - we got oil pressure...
sopped all that up and then tried to start it. got about 1 good revolution out of the old battery and it went titsup - not enough powie to turn the motor. we hook up the charger and set it to 50amp start mode and crank on it a while. it was turning over OK but my son didnt think it was fast enough. i told him as long as it gets past the compression hump it should spark and fire. we tried a few minutes then decided to go get a fresh battery anyways - the one i had is from 2013 when i first got this ride so it lasted a decent amount of time anyways.
we went from a group24 to a group27 battery 930amps over like 750amp or so. got back home with the new juice and it turns over way better now, but still no action. we changed condenser, rotor, cap, points with new parts + various other sets I have laying around. no spark ever no matter which parts we go with. confirmed fuel all the way to the carb squirters. test ohms at the ballast - like 1.2 IIRC. test across the coil = 1.6 IIRC. pull out a spark plug and lay it up along the frame to watch for spark - nothin. change coils - nothin. check TDC, plug wiring, and dizzy position - looks OK to us.
We never even got a fart out of this thing. no backfire. no half start. nothing. i cant find a reman dizzy close to home, and the 383 dizzy shows a different P/N from the 440 dizzy so im scared to swap it off the 383 and stab it into the 440 i dont know whats different if i will hurt anything.
i have an electronic dizzy + orange box but have to wire the whole damn thing up if i go that direction.
one good note is a 15a fuse is big enough to kick the cold-case fans on without blowing a fuse. the thing moves some air.
whats my test procedure my fine gentlemen? i dont think im getting any fire in the hole.
try not to die -
- saylor
had a moment of clarity while trying to connect the driveshaft. could not get the u joint lined up with the yoke on the pumpkin. realized if i lift the rear end off the ground i could spin the rear wheel and turn the yoke where i needed it to match the driveshaft u joint position. blam installed it fastly after that.
removed dizzy and dizzy gear, and then fit the priming rod in and gave it about a minute of spin (counter clockwise). put gear and dizzy back and got in the driver seat. found a 1/4 cup of oil on the floor under the dash oil gauge - we got oil pressure...
sopped all that up and then tried to start it. got about 1 good revolution out of the old battery and it went titsup - not enough powie to turn the motor. we hook up the charger and set it to 50amp start mode and crank on it a while. it was turning over OK but my son didnt think it was fast enough. i told him as long as it gets past the compression hump it should spark and fire. we tried a few minutes then decided to go get a fresh battery anyways - the one i had is from 2013 when i first got this ride so it lasted a decent amount of time anyways.
we went from a group24 to a group27 battery 930amps over like 750amp or so. got back home with the new juice and it turns over way better now, but still no action. we changed condenser, rotor, cap, points with new parts + various other sets I have laying around. no spark ever no matter which parts we go with. confirmed fuel all the way to the carb squirters. test ohms at the ballast - like 1.2 IIRC. test across the coil = 1.6 IIRC. pull out a spark plug and lay it up along the frame to watch for spark - nothin. change coils - nothin. check TDC, plug wiring, and dizzy position - looks OK to us.
We never even got a fart out of this thing. no backfire. no half start. nothing. i cant find a reman dizzy close to home, and the 383 dizzy shows a different P/N from the 440 dizzy so im scared to swap it off the 383 and stab it into the 440 i dont know whats different if i will hurt anything.
i have an electronic dizzy + orange box but have to wire the whole damn thing up if i go that direction.
one good note is a 15a fuse is big enough to kick the cold-case fans on without blowing a fuse. the thing moves some air.
whats my test procedure my fine gentlemen? i dont think im getting any fire in the hole.
try not to die -
- saylor
Do you have ~6 volts to the coil + wire with the key on? When cranking ~12 volts ( bypasses ballast resister)?
Have you checked the high tension coil wire to the distributor cap to make sure that the wire is not damaged and is allowing the spark to get to the distributor?
Rotor seated and top tab on rotor contacting cap?
Are you seeing the points open and close if turning the engine over with the cap off with no arcing.
Are you getting spark out of the coil wire?
A couple of things to check before going to the next steps.
Marty
Have you checked the high tension coil wire to the distributor cap to make sure that the wire is not damaged and is allowing the spark to get to the distributor?
Rotor seated and top tab on rotor contacting cap?
Are you seeing the points open and close if turning the engine over with the cap off with no arcing.
Are you getting spark out of the coil wire?
A couple of things to check before going to the next steps.
Marty
saylor
Senior Member
ill test those voltage conditions and report back.
can i cram a spark plug into the coil<>dist wire and lay it up along the frame just to test for spark out of the coil?
can i cram a spark plug into the coil<>dist wire and lay it up along the frame just to test for spark out of the coil?
I used to do it with a screw driver with an insulated handle and hold it close to an intake bolt. 1/2 the time it would shock me. Probably not good for the coil if you ground it out.
You could probably put one of your plug wires on the coil for a better fit to the plug. If you get a strong spark then you will need to verify your coil wire is good, rotor contacting and clean. (No grease on any connection.)
If no spark. Something else is amiss. Coil, points, condenser.
Let us know.
You could probably put one of your plug wires on the coil for a better fit to the plug. If you get a strong spark then you will need to verify your coil wire is good, rotor contacting and clean. (No grease on any connection.)
If no spark. Something else is amiss. Coil, points, condenser.
Let us know.
saylor
Senior Member
holy shite it started. i redid the wire on the dist <> coil, and cleaned everything up, and learned how to set the points. had to feed it alot of gas and then finally it hit. took it up to 2k r.p.m. and had to shut down for a water leak on a hose and fuel line to fuel filter leak. fired it up again and it got up to 210* and i shut it down again. changing out thermostat from 180 to 160 here in a few minutes once its cool enough to work on.
saylor
Senior Member
still getting too hot to stay in it. steady temp climb until i kill it at ~220*
top and bottom rad hoses are both full on the squeeze test.
can the water pump be installed upside down? on the old 383 the water pump housing has a mark ' top' but on the 440 pump there is no designation mark on the pump body. looking at the backside of the pump looks the same up or down i.e. there are no directional cavities or anything - just fins.
how bout if i had the distributor gear 1 tooth off and running lean? is there enough swing in the dizzy adjustment to get that far off and still run?
I'm a 1 man show i cant be in the car keeping it at 2k r.p.m. and be in the front doing timing. this is disadvantageous.
new 160 t-stat looks to be open - we see water moving at the top of the rad and top hose is full.
doctor?
- saylor
top and bottom rad hoses are both full on the squeeze test.
can the water pump be installed upside down? on the old 383 the water pump housing has a mark ' top' but on the 440 pump there is no designation mark on the pump body. looking at the backside of the pump looks the same up or down i.e. there are no directional cavities or anything - just fins.
how bout if i had the distributor gear 1 tooth off and running lean? is there enough swing in the dizzy adjustment to get that far off and still run?
I'm a 1 man show i cant be in the car keeping it at 2k r.p.m. and be in the front doing timing. this is disadvantageous.
new 160 t-stat looks to be open - we see water moving at the top of the rad and top hose is full.
doctor?
- saylor
saylor
Senior Member
I want to reindex my distributor and timing just to triple check. is the following steps the way?
find TDC on #1cyl.
put scribed timing mark on balancer right at "0" at the timing window arrow point
stab distributor drive gear so the notch is || vertical 12/6 position.
rotor should be directly over/ pointing right at #1spark plug on rotor cap at this point.
let er rip.
is good?
find TDC on #1cyl.
put scribed timing mark on balancer right at "0" at the timing window arrow point
stab distributor drive gear so the notch is || vertical 12/6 position.
rotor should be directly over/ pointing right at #1spark plug on rotor cap at this point.
let er rip.
is good?
Indexing distributor.
I may over explain, but should be good for someone else in the future.
Find TDC on number 1 cylinder (left front of engine): pull spark plug from number 1. Make sure car is in park or neutral. If you are the only person you will need to jump the starter using the relay by the battery. A remote starter switch is a good inexpensive tool. Hold your finger over the plug hole creating a seal with your finger. Turn starter over until you start to feel air leak by your finger. Stop immediately. Remove your jump wire. Take a look at your harmonic balancer. You should see a scribe mark on it. If you stopped fast enough it should see it to to the left of the TDC mark on the timing chain cover. If you were too slow releasing the starter you will need to do it again or turn it by hand almost two full revolutions. Use a deep well socket and breaker bar and turn the harmonic balancer clockwise (righty tighty)so that the factory scribe line is up to your timing marks. If you think the factory scribe mark is off. Take a wire coat hanger and stick it in the hole until you feel the piston. Using your breaker bar slowly turn the engine until the wire stops moving as the piston hits TDC. Your Factory scribe mark should line up with TDC on your timing chain cover.
If not your harmonic balancer is most likely damaged, scribing a new line could be an option, but your engine will be out of balance.
Once TDC has been found check that your rotor is lined up with the number one plug wire. Remember on a big block, the distributor turns counter clockwise one revolution for every two of the engine.
Showing just after TDC. I used chalk or a paint pen to hi light the factory scribe mark.
Position of number one plug wire. Mine is timed around 7-1/2 BTC wires go counter clockwise from that point. 1-8-4-3-6-5-7–2
I may over explain, but should be good for someone else in the future.
Find TDC on number 1 cylinder (left front of engine): pull spark plug from number 1. Make sure car is in park or neutral. If you are the only person you will need to jump the starter using the relay by the battery. A remote starter switch is a good inexpensive tool. Hold your finger over the plug hole creating a seal with your finger. Turn starter over until you start to feel air leak by your finger. Stop immediately. Remove your jump wire. Take a look at your harmonic balancer. You should see a scribe mark on it. If you stopped fast enough it should see it to to the left of the TDC mark on the timing chain cover. If you were too slow releasing the starter you will need to do it again or turn it by hand almost two full revolutions. Use a deep well socket and breaker bar and turn the harmonic balancer clockwise (righty tighty)so that the factory scribe line is up to your timing marks. If you think the factory scribe mark is off. Take a wire coat hanger and stick it in the hole until you feel the piston. Using your breaker bar slowly turn the engine until the wire stops moving as the piston hits TDC. Your Factory scribe mark should line up with TDC on your timing chain cover.
If not your harmonic balancer is most likely damaged, scribing a new line could be an option, but your engine will be out of balance.
Once TDC has been found check that your rotor is lined up with the number one plug wire. Remember on a big block, the distributor turns counter clockwise one revolution for every two of the engine.
Showing just after TDC. I used chalk or a paint pen to hi light the factory scribe mark.
Position of number one plug wire. Mine is timed around 7-1/2 BTC wires go counter clockwise from that point. 1-8-4-3-6-5-7–2
As far as aligning the distributor slot. It will only go two ways. Right on or 180 degrees off. Once you have it in “right” the rotor electrode should be around the 7:30 -8:00 position and aligning up with the #1 plug wire (standing directly in front. Once you think you are very close take a small marker and draw a line from your distributor to the block. This will give you a return / reference point if you over correct.
Double check your wire are in the correct order and too the correct plug hole. I even screwed this up the first time.
From the manual for reference. Take note: left bank(drivers side) odd numbers starting from front. Right side even (just like the Mopar part numbers)
If it is hot it doesn’t hurt to set an electric fan front of the radiator.
There’s not much air flow at idle with the hood up.
Make sure your vacuum advance is disconnected and vacuum line plugged before timing. Once you get it started, if it won’t idle, loosen the distributor bolt, and turn the distributor a little clockwise (advance) it doesn’t take much. Once you get it to idle at least a little bit move the distributor slightly each direction until you get the smoothest sound. Tighten it for now and check your idle settings. Get the idle set close to spec and then finish timing it. If time it with the idle too high the mechanical advance may be kicking in and affect your initial timing. You will find that as you dual in the timing your idle will change a bit. Time check idle, check time, check idle.
Sorry for creating a chapter book.
Good luck
Double check your wire are in the correct order and too the correct plug hole. I even screwed this up the first time.
From the manual for reference. Take note: left bank(drivers side) odd numbers starting from front. Right side even (just like the Mopar part numbers)
If it is hot it doesn’t hurt to set an electric fan front of the radiator.
There’s not much air flow at idle with the hood up.
Make sure your vacuum advance is disconnected and vacuum line plugged before timing. Once you get it started, if it won’t idle, loosen the distributor bolt, and turn the distributor a little clockwise (advance) it doesn’t take much. Once you get it to idle at least a little bit move the distributor slightly each direction until you get the smoothest sound. Tighten it for now and check your idle settings. Get the idle set close to spec and then finish timing it. If time it with the idle too high the mechanical advance may be kicking in and affect your initial timing. You will find that as you dual in the timing your idle will change a bit. Time check idle, check time, check idle.
Sorry for creating a chapter book.
Good luck
Last edited:
saylor
Senior Member
thx for the pics. im gonna put it back to the TDC marks and recheck my distributor gear. I really think its 1 tooth off.
I also have an orange box + elec. dizzy - I may change to that also just because I have it laying here.
after a bunch of reading, I do think my hi temp is related to the engine timing.
I also have an orange box + elec. dizzy - I may change to that also just because I have it laying here.
after a bunch of reading, I do think my hi temp is related to the engine timing.
saylor
Senior Member
today i did:
got the cold case dual fans on a 30A relay with a 185* on / 175* off thermostat trigger.
changed over to mopar orange box + new distributor from stock points dist.
change from edelbrock 600 to edelbrock 750 carb.
- ive had those parts layin around waitin on me forever months and months and months, so mentally its a super win.
motor still getting too hot tho. sigh.
got the cold case dual fans on a 30A relay with a 185* on / 175* off thermostat trigger.
changed over to mopar orange box + new distributor from stock points dist.
change from edelbrock 600 to edelbrock 750 carb.
- ive had those parts layin around waitin on me forever months and months and months, so mentally its a super win.
motor still getting too hot tho. sigh.
saylor
Senior Member
o changing from points to electronic made a noticeable difference in stutter/random tach swings/etc it instantly 'felt' better you could just tell it was firing better.
saylor
Senior Member
is it possible to have a water leak at the exhaust manifold bolts? do any of these hit water jackets on a 1968 440 engine?
is a can of alumiseal in my future?
is a can of alumiseal in my future?
65sporty
Old Man with a Hat
Sure is, they go into water in the head. Pull one at a time and seal the threads. I don't remember if it's just the outside bolts though.
I know for sure the end bolts/studs go to water, not sure on the rest but I'm inclined to say no.
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