67' 300 - 440 To Stroke or Not?

[Cortez]

Just busy busy busy building the budget first this old gal. She in decent stock condition, family owned since new with just over 30k original miles. She's been sitting in the garage for 8 years untouched and roared to life with a new battery and fresh fuel with a quick fuel carb new plugs wires and cap and rotor, also valve cover gaskets and oil change. What I want is reliable but strong. I don't read many magazines but speak to a lot of Mopar guys with bigger budgets than mine. That's why I asked you fellas for your opinions. Im willing to pay a bit more for peace of mind and the confidence to drive her from Pa to Fla every summer without fear of a 500 mile tow. I absolutely appreciated the input.

 

[twostick]

If it truly only has 30,000 miles on it, all it needs is the oil changed and a tune up and it appears you have most of that covered.

If you are truly paranoid, then replace all the belts and hoses while the hood is up and have a nice trip.

Kevin

 

[tallhair]

Agree with two stick.

Out of curiosity, is this a U code TNT motor?

 

[tallhair]

In 67?

meant HP L code

 

[Cortez]

No not HP its the K motor, wasn't sure about the damage from sitting stagnant for 8 years, the garage has a dehumidifier but there was a lot of white chalky build up on some of the metal which is why I was wondering about a possible rebuild.

 

[tallhair]

Should be fine with a tuneup and other basics mentioned.

Definitely don’t think rebuild unless you find a problem.

congrats on nice find.

 

[Turboomni]

Sounds like you just have to tune it up,change fluids and get to know the old gal again.

 

[Cortez]

Thanks fellas, it was suggested that I replace all the rubber suspension parts, sound right, she is extremely squeeky when rolling slow, like an old Schwinn cruiser.

 

[SuperDave]

I say go for it! I would love to blow a wad of bucks into my Turd if my budget (& wife) would allow it; poked & stroked, 440 Source aluminum heads, long tube headers, Holley Sniper EFI, make it produce 600+ ponies at the wheels. But doing so would necessitate upgrading the rear axle, as the 8.25" unit it currently wears (new and improved with posi!) isn't rated to handle more than 400HP & would likely grenade before long with my heavy right foot.

Go for it! 440Source has stroker kits available with new forged cranks, bearings and pistons that will drop in with little to no mods to the block. They do recommend boring the motor out to .035" to set the rings and insure a tight seal out of the box, but if it were me, I'd go for broke and punch it out .060". There's no replacement for displacement! And torque? Who wouldn't love their barge to drop the hammer at 70, downshift into 2nd gear and boil the tires in a fury of smoke & noise?

 

[Lee Phillips]

Not saying you should or shouldn't,just my story.
My 69 Fury III 440 is going to a mild 505 build and is designed to go anywhere at anytime. Everything is been designed to be well within the limits of the parts installed. You can build a 440 to make the power of the stroker but it will be more stressed to do so with it's shorter stroke and displacement and higher rpm's. The 505 will have good idle [not a Cuda wannabe} and vacuum but much more torque and hp to push my 4000 lbs Fury with 3.23 rear with ease. The design is said to make 600 ft lbs torque starting at around 2800 rpms. I will be able to go to cruises and putt around no problem. Mr. Duane Porter [Porter Racing Heads}who was recommended to me by @FURYGT designed the engine after much consultation on what I realistically wanted from the car. He is a big contributor on FBBO forum and highly respected by all there. The engine will look stock and Turquoise all over . No shiny aluminum heads or intake. It will run a custom grind cam designed by Mr Porter with hydraulic rollers. My goal is build it once and enjoy till I can't drive anymore. I will say it is not a cheap project depending on how you build it. You could go flat tappet cam which could save you a bundle. Racers don't like hydraulic rollers but this engine won't see much over 5000 ever. If you don't get greedy and "leave some power on the table" as they say ,I believe you can have a very reliable stroker to drive anywhere with great increase in power that runs on pump gas. A stock 440 is reliable because much power was "Left on the table". Also in the equation it is a good idea to get a modified torque converter to get the most from the stroker engine. @MEV told me about his setup and says you would never know it wasn't stock till you nail it. So I ordered one. I have no personal proof of all this because my project is not completed yet. But I have seen guys here and elsewhere [FBBO etc} that have succeeded very well and then some greedy ones who either weren't happy with the drivability or broke something or are forever addicted to race gas. Then there are guys that want lopey idle ,no vacuum and run race gas. Fine but I think the important thing is to decide what you want from the car then what to do to get there. Most all avenues of building these old engines are beaten paths now. That's a good thing.
As the saying goes "Different Strokes for Different Folks!"

 

[Lee Phillips]

Well said!

 

[fury fan]

A 30k mile pre-smog 440? I'd give it a mid-level diagnosis (oil pressure, compression check, leakdown check) and go from there. If all OK, do some bolt-ons as budget allows?

One of the near-strongest running cars I've ever had was a 66 Nupe with a 350hp 440, log manifolds/2-1/4" dual exh, 600 Eddy and alum intake. And 2.76 gears. Not a barn-stormer, but a good combo with the 2.76 and from 25mph and up it would never stop pulling. And got 16mpg usually, too.

One interesting thing is you have a 67, so it has -915 closed-chamber heads, but with the smaller 1.60" exh valve. You could have those valves 'opened' up to 1.74 and put in a TNT/Magnum/Super Commando cam (or modern equivalent) and some HP exh manifolds and get a noticeable boost. But with that said, there's $1500 worth of parts/labor there EASILY.

How much do you need, and how much do you want to spend???

 

[tallhair]

2.76 behind a 440 are great, especially for long distance cruising at 75-80. It’ll never break a sweat.

With near 500 ft lbs, especially with minor mods fury fan suggests it has plenty of power.

Install 2.97 or 3.23s it will be happy also.

 

[volksworld]

even with 30k i wouldnt trust 50 year old plastic timing gear teeth....so if everything (comp,leakdown,oil pressure) checks out good i'd replace the timing chain before you seriously beat on it or you'll be pulling teeth out of the oil pickup...you can pull the distributor and look down theres a small window where you can see the top of the chain and see what you've got in there...idk exactly what year they went to plastic...hopefully someone more knowledgable can chime in

 

[M0esy]

I'd recommend minor upgrades on rebuild, and not do stroker engine. The reason for that is the heads on your engine, and on mine as well, are very restrictive. Chrysler changed that in the 1968 model year. A stock rebuild of the long block, windage tray, maybe upgraded cam and 440 source aluminum "Stealth" heads are what I'd recommend, and were what I was considering for my '67 300 before I got married over 5 years ago.

 

[Cortez]

I'm so grateful for all the input, I will do comp, leak and pilot pressure tests first and see what's what and progress accordingly. I'd like to get the squeaky suspension quieted down and a few cosmetics taken care of so I will only consider immediate stroking if she fails the tests and requires a full rebuild. I'd like to get a decent summer of driving under my belt and get the wife as in love with her as I am, then the budget won't be as strict. How do I go about the gears are there kits or do I shop salvage yards this is an entirely uncharted area for me.

 

[fury fan]

Rear gears might be available at a specialty junkyard, or at some of the internet driveline stores.

Fopr your 8-3/4" axle:
Getting a 'new' ready-to-install gearset assembly is probably about $1250 nowadays, but might be the safest bet since new turf for you. Swapping isn't terribly difficult but there are a few detail items to setting the axle bearing endplay (and it's heavy). When the gearset comes out it's an excellent time to re-grease those axle bearings. The fronts are generally done at brake jobs, but the 'maintenance free' rear axle causes those to get neglected.

You'll need to change the speedo drive gear in the trans to match the gears and tire size, but fortunately a 66-newer trans uses a gear that is still readily available. Google the chart on the speedo gears and where to get them.

 

[tallhair]

Rear gears might be available at a specialty junkyard, or at some of the internet driveline stores.

Fopr your 8-3/4" axle:
Getting a 'new' ready-to-install gearset assembly is probably about $1250 nowadays, but might be the safest bet since new turf for you. Swapping isn't terribly difficult but there are a few detail items to setting the axle bearing endplay (and it's heavy). When the gearset comes out it's an excellent time to re-grease those axle bearings. The fronts are generally done at brake jobs, but the 'maintenance free' rear axle causes those to get neglected.

You'll need to change the speedo drive gear in the trans to match the gears and tire size, but fortunately a 66-newer trans uses a gear that is still readily available. Google the chart on the speedo gears and where to get them.

FYI the speedo gear change is super easy. It’s in the speedo drive housing on the trans.

Also get some advice on the correct speedo gear considering both the new rear gear and the tire height.

 

[Cortez]

I think I will definitely have to source this aspect, am I looking for a tranny shop or is this typically a general mechanics job?

 

[fury fan]

FYI the speedo gear change is super easy. It’s in the speedo drive housing on the trans.

Also get some advice on the correct speedo gear considering both the new rear gear and the tire height.

Excellent point, Tallhair, changing 'a gear' in the trans might suggest a major task, and you are right to point out that it is fairly simple. Must pay attention to the cast-in clocking marks of the adapter when reinstalling it with that new drive gear.