A look at the weirdness of a Plymouth Prowler.
- Thread starter Turboomni
- Start date
There's a huge lot of neat stuff about the Prowler. Unfortunately, many don't see those things OR look at it like we did when it was new. A different time back then, than now, when Chrysler was on a roll that we wish could have continued onward more than it did.
CBODY67
CBODY67
I would put a modern 392 supercharged engine in one of these....
A few highlights....
The LH platform driveline was peppy, and the car was lighter... performance was killed by the ginormous rear tires... so badly that Chrysler had to build a new gear set for the differential to try to bandaid the problem enough to deliver the cars (very late too).
They seldom survive a hard hit, the cast aluminum frame cannot be straightened safely. The skin is riveted in place so an aviation sheet metal tech would be a good choice for bodywork. I heard chatter about insurance rates, but don't know if true.
This car seemed like a great idea after the success of the Viper, but was so much a disaster it derailed the plans for the Copperhead show car to be turned into a production model (along with new German partners)...
@Carmine please add or pooh-pooh as you see fit...
azblackhemi
Old Man with a Hat
There had to be a dozen of these at Barrett Jackson this year.
I have heard that these cars really ride pretty rough.
Carmine
Old Man with a Hat
I'm not even going to give him a click because I'm certain he raises nothing that I haven't already heard. That nerd knows nothing about cars. (I once watched him drone on about how "ridiculous" a '93 Wrangler was because the seat didn't tilt forward... Yet it does... He didn't know it was only the passenger side, like most every 2dr SUV of the era.) So instead, a quick rebuttal from someone who was part of "team Prowler" from day one.
1) The whole "needs a V8" part is stupid. At that moment in time, the 3.5 V6 made 253 HP, which was more than the biggest V8 Chrysler offered. It was also more than the contemporary Mustang GT. Lastly, it was all-aluminium, befitting the high-tech hotrod theme of the car. To have installed an LA series V8 would have been as cool as a '57 Fury with a flathead 6. Stock (after the short run of 1998's) they were less than 6 secs to 60 and mid 14s in the 1/4. There is a supercharger kit out there, which I'd add before an engine swap.
2) Like the Viper before it, the car served several purposes. Halo/magazine-cover car, styling theme for the brand (PT Cruiser), modular assembly and aluminum suspension/construction testbed. Most people forget the aluminum suspension (including rotors) and 55 percent of the weight over the rear, driving wheels. The engineering team became frustrated with Daimler arrogance and cost-cutting, so they left and designed the Ford GT, then the aluminum F-150.
3) Sales never really fell off, but the need for side impact airbags and no longer serving a purpose as a "Plymouth" are what ended the car. I don't believe there was ever a serious plan for the Copperhead. If there had been another "halo" car for the Viper plant (there were two assembly lines) it would have been the Chrysler Crossfire/Firepower built on a Viper platform, rather than a forgettable contracted-out version built on an old SL platform.
I'm throwing the next part in for @azblackhemi
Drove one of these at the AZ proving grounds (off the actual Chrysler property), it ran the same windy-road route through Bagdad, AZ* as the Viper. (*the last company-owned mining town in the US) You weren't supposed to speed, but you were expected to run enough laps in your shift that it required you to drive "expeditiously". This is just north of Nothing. See all the hairpins below:
Yes, literally north of Nothing.
Getting to Bagdad required a trip through Yarnell. For whatever reason, Yarnell (below) has a speed trap right at the base of the mountain. The Sheriff deputies and statie's got accustomed to us, would give us a wave and pretty much ignore us. Once I passed an oncoming cop "expeditiously" and received no wave. But I did see her heading for the shoulder and making a loop in her Crown Vic. I'll end this story by saying a Vic is nowhere near as fast as a Prowler through hairpins; and perhaps you cannot outrun a Motorola... But when the nearest fellow officer might be 10-20 miles away; you can.
1) The whole "needs a V8" part is stupid. At that moment in time, the 3.5 V6 made 253 HP, which was more than the biggest V8 Chrysler offered. It was also more than the contemporary Mustang GT. Lastly, it was all-aluminium, befitting the high-tech hotrod theme of the car. To have installed an LA series V8 would have been as cool as a '57 Fury with a flathead 6. Stock (after the short run of 1998's) they were less than 6 secs to 60 and mid 14s in the 1/4. There is a supercharger kit out there, which I'd add before an engine swap.
2) Like the Viper before it, the car served several purposes. Halo/magazine-cover car, styling theme for the brand (PT Cruiser), modular assembly and aluminum suspension/construction testbed. Most people forget the aluminum suspension (including rotors) and 55 percent of the weight over the rear, driving wheels. The engineering team became frustrated with Daimler arrogance and cost-cutting, so they left and designed the Ford GT, then the aluminum F-150.
3) Sales never really fell off, but the need for side impact airbags and no longer serving a purpose as a "Plymouth" are what ended the car. I don't believe there was ever a serious plan for the Copperhead. If there had been another "halo" car for the Viper plant (there were two assembly lines) it would have been the Chrysler Crossfire/Firepower built on a Viper platform, rather than a forgettable contracted-out version built on an old SL platform.
I'm throwing the next part in for @azblackhemi
Drove one of these at the AZ proving grounds (off the actual Chrysler property), it ran the same windy-road route through Bagdad, AZ* as the Viper. (*the last company-owned mining town in the US) You weren't supposed to speed, but you were expected to run enough laps in your shift that it required you to drive "expeditiously". This is just north of Nothing. See all the hairpins below:
Yes, literally north of Nothing.
Getting to Bagdad required a trip through Yarnell. For whatever reason, Yarnell (below) has a speed trap right at the base of the mountain. The Sheriff deputies and statie's got accustomed to us, would give us a wave and pretty much ignore us. Once I passed an oncoming cop "expeditiously" and received no wave. But I did see her heading for the shoulder and making a loop in her Crown Vic. I'll end this story by saying a Vic is nowhere near as fast as a Prowler through hairpins; and perhaps you cannot outrun a Motorola... But when the nearest fellow officer might be 10-20 miles away; you can.
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I've always wanted one. Not practical, kinda quirky, but I still want one.
Carmine
Old Man with a Hat
I'd like to get one myself. It was a fun car.
twostick
Senior Member
I'll grant you from a horsepower standpoint the V6 was probably adequate but it also highlights the complete disconnect between car companies and the car people that buy their products.
The Prowler takes all its design cues from a Deuce Roadster but misses the mark completely on the most visceral one that all hotrods absolutely positively have to have and that is the sound of a V8.
I read an article about the Mazda Miata that demonstrates the same thing as far as disconnects go. The design team thought the car was going to be a flop and that they would be fired as a result. How could any car person think that a car that took its design cues from an MGB, possibly the most popular sports car on the planet while being the most unreliable car on the planet at the same time, could be a flop?
An MG that will take me to my destination and back without an electrical fire and do it with AC and stereo if I chose? Yeah nobody will ever buy that...
Kevin
The Prowler takes all its design cues from a Deuce Roadster but misses the mark completely on the most visceral one that all hotrods absolutely positively have to have and that is the sound of a V8.
I read an article about the Mazda Miata that demonstrates the same thing as far as disconnects go. The design team thought the car was going to be a flop and that they would be fired as a result. How could any car person think that a car that took its design cues from an MGB, possibly the most popular sports car on the planet while being the most unreliable car on the planet at the same time, could be a flop?
An MG that will take me to my destination and back without an electrical fire and do it with AC and stereo if I chose? Yeah nobody will ever buy that...
Kevin
Carmine
Old Man with a Hat
Perhaps... But the only thing that actually held back sales was the small scale of production. Like the Viper, it was not intended to be more than a niche car. Just one example: A huge production bottleneck for both cars was the expected paint quality. They were painted in conventional spray booths by humans, which leaves many opportunities for defects. Production days were lost because no parts were available. To invest in a robotic paint shop would have exceeded the program's cost by [hundreds of] millions of dollars. And that's just one of about 100+ issues of "scale". A lot of suppliers took a loss on some low-production Prowler widget in order to land a 500,000 minivan widget contract.
In other words, if they'd tooled for more than about 3,000 annually, they might have been disappointed and lost all that money. By only having the ability to build 3,000 (and a waiting list), there was no reason to worry about "disconnect". The no V8 complaint comes from people who likely weren't buyers anyway, or would have moved to the next issue (visibility, cargo space, packaging, whatever). Guys like DeMuro call "failure" from an autos 101 understanding.
I thought mazda mx5 based off the lotus elan?
GJS
Senior Member
Cruisin' East Vancouver .. goin' to get hitched. Probably loose your virginity tonight. then BAM!
mr. fix it
Old Man with a Hat
I have to admit that on the surface the Prowler is a car to drive on my bucket list 
Dobalovr
Being on the Cbody diet SUCKS!
They were and still are in my mind a testament to the “Car guy” mentality of the time that Chrysler became known for. Ford and GM had nothing like it and were at a loss as to bring something to market that could compete. We had people lined up to buy the 97’s and big money was being made. By 2001 we had a hard time moving them and today they can be had for a reasonable price. I think any true Mopar guy would want one. They were rough riding but had plenty of scat with a 3.5l but you know everyone wanted a V8 swapped in. GM countered with the SSR (woohoo) Ford built the GT ...if it was not for the Viper/Prowler I don’t think you would have seen these other offerings happen.
twostick
Senior Member
Could be some influence there too.
The reason I said MGB was because mere mortals could afford one and did so in large numbers. The Lotus not so much.
Kevin
twostick
Senior Member
Perhaps to some degree but how many would be buyers dismissed the car out of hand and never even test drove it because they considered a V6 hotrod lame. They were priced in real hotrod territory and I don't think practicality seriously enters into a decision to buy a car like this.
I don't know what a 4.7 weighs vs a Hemi vs the 3.5 but I thought the 4.7 would have been a good fit power wise vs the V6 and made all the right hotrod noises. Whether it could be packaged in the Prowler envelope, I have no idea.
Kevin
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