Chad
Member
Happy Sunday Gents, hope everyone is well and not dealing with any car troubles or intense hellish climate. How frustrating is it that I associate hot weather with Al Gore....
Anyways.... I haven’t been too active on FCBO since my original acquisition post, I have needed time to acclimate to this new Mopar world. It really is crazy the way most aspects of Mopar ownership far differ from pretty much all other classic and modern car cultures. I’ll touch more on this shortly.
I bought a 72 Polara about a month ago. It was the yellow Custom Coupe with 46k original and green interior. If you guys know the car, cosmetically, rust wise, functionality, the car is amazingly original and well kept (minus the brighter yellow than original paint and Chev wire wheel caps. There’s not a drop of rust, exposure, electrical gremlins, etc.
For anyone new to the car, it’s a 72, 46k original miles, I’m the second owner, yellow on green with a green vinyl top, 360 2 bbl Auto, and I found it on Seattle CL listed for $1650 with only an email. I scrambled and was able to buy the car (non-running, but sat for 18 years in a garage and looked promising).
First photos here are where the car was parked when I showed up to sellers house
Yay first Mopar! I loaded the car, went to my local O’Reilly Auto Parts, grabbed the usual plugs, wires, cap, rotor, ether, etc and headed home for the shop.
First thing I noticed was, no matter how much battery charger, CCA battery, or cables attached to battery I couldn’t get the starter motor to turn over at a reputable rate of speed. Even jumping 24 volts only made a slight momentary change and back to the dreary moan of before.
And of course a no start.
Quick trip back to Oreillys, new (to me) starter, and that problem was solved.
Still no start.
Checked firing order, timing, spark, all good (except the kind of orangish yellow spark, which I wasn’t confident in, because of a previous multi day diagnosing endeavor with a 68 289 Mustang, also of which had spark but problem was spark related)
I filled a gas can with premium, added some points booster, and a little sea foam.
Ran a brand new hose from the fuel pump into this jerry can. I had also at this point already drained as much fuel from the tank as possible, put 10 gallons of new fuel in the tank, and changed the filter. I checked that fuels flammability (strong), but what the heck I want to rule out fuel age and starvation.
Nada. No start. Couple occasional pops.
I was really confused. I had heard about the crap original timing gears, but with 46k on a garaged car it should be fine.
On to the squeeze aspect.
Compression test on all cylinders
Most were between 82-95 psi, one was in the mid 70’s, and the worst 2 were pretty much 70 on the nose. Yes low but after sitting for such a long time it’s to be expected. With other classic V8’s in this situation I should be running. Was a bit puzzled.
Artificial compression here we go.
Pulled plugs, dried with compressed air, put about 2-3 ounces of compression mix (5w-20/atf/ether) in each cylinder through plug hole and reinstalled plugs. Wait 20 mins, prime carb, charge battery, introduce major timing advance. The one major precaution on this “compression in a bottle” is to make sure the oil hasn’t been flooded with gasoline after any extended attempts at starting with no spark. I have seen crankcases go nuclear and turn manifolds into jigsaw puzzles.
Anyway I’m rambling sorry...
car fired up. Was idling about 2200 and smoked of course for a few from the compression mix and newly reintroduced heat to motor. But then it cleared up and was running smooth minus a high idle.
Did I mention the distributor was at full CCW advance? Yep, only way it would run.
Obviously engines down on compression are hard to get cold started, hence the magic mix sealing rings temporarily and car starting. After running the compression would come up with ring re-seal from friction and heat.
Timing was still a major issue. Car would sputter bad if I retarded CW at all from full advance, and by full advance I mean the vacuum secondary was butting up against everything and there was no adjustability left there.
Funny thing was when I tore motor down to install new double roller, I found many interesting and baffling items
1)The engines timing sprockets (cam mainly) had “summer teeth”.
as in, “summer” there, some aren’t ;-)
About 10% were broken or missing.
2) the chain was loose enough to remove without taking either sprocket off, not by routing around missing teeth, just THAT loose.
3) the car was at comp. TDC #1, and the crank sprocket mark indeed was basically 12 o’clock on the nose. BUT, the cam mark was at 8 o’clock. I figured the chain had jumped roughly 8-9 teeth for the mark to be at 8 instead of 6. Then I noticed on the forums that it was even worse
4) the new (and old) timing marks on the sprockets are supposed to BOTH be at 12 o’clock!!
The car had jumped more that 30 teeth and was about 150-160 degrees out of time.
Remember this car ran currently. Not great as noticed in the video but I think the timing was catching cyl 6 and was running anyway.
Threw new timing set on. Set timing with the eyecrometer, little ether, popped right off.
Crazy deal after a week of coming back to car and trying to get running.
This was last weekend. I had a lot of other wrenches to turn this week, so I basically spent this week getting new parts (water pump, gaskets, couple Thermoquads in working order for $75!, 4 bbl manifold, and basically just throwing everything I could in parts washed, cleaning up the bay, sanding, priming, painting, etc to get mechanical overhaul where I’ll be content with for a while.
I would just take breaks from other jobs to keep progress.
I reached my photo limit, so I’m going to cut this one and keep adding in my reply. I am extensively noveling this for a few reasons. I wish I saw this thread when I was having my troubles, it’s nice to read a long extensive diagnostic thread with solutions, especially if you can relate with the symptoms because they were expressed in great depth. Also I want to get more involved on this forum and this is a good way to get the ball rolling. Other forums I enjoy are great but the newer car threads are a very different experience at times.
I suffered my first heat stroke or exhaustion today and it was brutal. I was wrenching on the Polara in 90 degree weather and basically freaked out. Went from a little disorientation, then instantly went to nausea and chunks in drain pan, and capped off with full body cramps all at one time. Crazy scary! I was all over the cold h2o all day and still happened. Be careful overdoing it in the sun gentleman. Anyways so I took some downtime in shop to cool off and start this thread.
Be back shortly here with last night and today’s major progress. I’m going to button up engine bay tonight after 8:30 or so PST when it cools down.
I also have some really big questions from inexperience with Mopar for you guys. I have searched endlessly and really am scratching my head. If you’re still reading thanks. Back shortly!
Chad
Anyways.... I haven’t been too active on FCBO since my original acquisition post, I have needed time to acclimate to this new Mopar world. It really is crazy the way most aspects of Mopar ownership far differ from pretty much all other classic and modern car cultures. I’ll touch more on this shortly.
I bought a 72 Polara about a month ago. It was the yellow Custom Coupe with 46k original and green interior. If you guys know the car, cosmetically, rust wise, functionality, the car is amazingly original and well kept (minus the brighter yellow than original paint and Chev wire wheel caps. There’s not a drop of rust, exposure, electrical gremlins, etc.
For anyone new to the car, it’s a 72, 46k original miles, I’m the second owner, yellow on green with a green vinyl top, 360 2 bbl Auto, and I found it on Seattle CL listed for $1650 with only an email. I scrambled and was able to buy the car (non-running, but sat for 18 years in a garage and looked promising).
First photos here are where the car was parked when I showed up to sellers house
Yay first Mopar! I loaded the car, went to my local O’Reilly Auto Parts, grabbed the usual plugs, wires, cap, rotor, ether, etc and headed home for the shop.
First thing I noticed was, no matter how much battery charger, CCA battery, or cables attached to battery I couldn’t get the starter motor to turn over at a reputable rate of speed. Even jumping 24 volts only made a slight momentary change and back to the dreary moan of before.
And of course a no start.
Quick trip back to Oreillys, new (to me) starter, and that problem was solved.
Still no start.
Checked firing order, timing, spark, all good (except the kind of orangish yellow spark, which I wasn’t confident in, because of a previous multi day diagnosing endeavor with a 68 289 Mustang, also of which had spark but problem was spark related)
I filled a gas can with premium, added some points booster, and a little sea foam.
Ran a brand new hose from the fuel pump into this jerry can. I had also at this point already drained as much fuel from the tank as possible, put 10 gallons of new fuel in the tank, and changed the filter. I checked that fuels flammability (strong), but what the heck I want to rule out fuel age and starvation.
Nada. No start. Couple occasional pops.
I was really confused. I had heard about the crap original timing gears, but with 46k on a garaged car it should be fine.
On to the squeeze aspect.
Compression test on all cylinders
Most were between 82-95 psi, one was in the mid 70’s, and the worst 2 were pretty much 70 on the nose. Yes low but after sitting for such a long time it’s to be expected. With other classic V8’s in this situation I should be running. Was a bit puzzled.
Artificial compression here we go.
Pulled plugs, dried with compressed air, put about 2-3 ounces of compression mix (5w-20/atf/ether) in each cylinder through plug hole and reinstalled plugs. Wait 20 mins, prime carb, charge battery, introduce major timing advance. The one major precaution on this “compression in a bottle” is to make sure the oil hasn’t been flooded with gasoline after any extended attempts at starting with no spark. I have seen crankcases go nuclear and turn manifolds into jigsaw puzzles.
Anyway I’m rambling sorry...
car fired up. Was idling about 2200 and smoked of course for a few from the compression mix and newly reintroduced heat to motor. But then it cleared up and was running smooth minus a high idle.
Did I mention the distributor was at full CCW advance? Yep, only way it would run.
Obviously engines down on compression are hard to get cold started, hence the magic mix sealing rings temporarily and car starting. After running the compression would come up with ring re-seal from friction and heat.
Timing was still a major issue. Car would sputter bad if I retarded CW at all from full advance, and by full advance I mean the vacuum secondary was butting up against everything and there was no adjustability left there.
Funny thing was when I tore motor down to install new double roller, I found many interesting and baffling items
1)The engines timing sprockets (cam mainly) had “summer teeth”.
as in, “summer” there, some aren’t ;-)
About 10% were broken or missing.
2) the chain was loose enough to remove without taking either sprocket off, not by routing around missing teeth, just THAT loose.
3) the car was at comp. TDC #1, and the crank sprocket mark indeed was basically 12 o’clock on the nose. BUT, the cam mark was at 8 o’clock. I figured the chain had jumped roughly 8-9 teeth for the mark to be at 8 instead of 6. Then I noticed on the forums that it was even worse
4) the new (and old) timing marks on the sprockets are supposed to BOTH be at 12 o’clock!!
The car had jumped more that 30 teeth and was about 150-160 degrees out of time.
Remember this car ran currently. Not great as noticed in the video but I think the timing was catching cyl 6 and was running anyway.
Threw new timing set on. Set timing with the eyecrometer, little ether, popped right off.
Crazy deal after a week of coming back to car and trying to get running.
This was last weekend. I had a lot of other wrenches to turn this week, so I basically spent this week getting new parts (water pump, gaskets, couple Thermoquads in working order for $75!, 4 bbl manifold, and basically just throwing everything I could in parts washed, cleaning up the bay, sanding, priming, painting, etc to get mechanical overhaul where I’ll be content with for a while.
I would just take breaks from other jobs to keep progress.
I reached my photo limit, so I’m going to cut this one and keep adding in my reply. I am extensively noveling this for a few reasons. I wish I saw this thread when I was having my troubles, it’s nice to read a long extensive diagnostic thread with solutions, especially if you can relate with the symptoms because they were expressed in great depth. Also I want to get more involved on this forum and this is a good way to get the ball rolling. Other forums I enjoy are great but the newer car threads are a very different experience at times.
I suffered my first heat stroke or exhaustion today and it was brutal. I was wrenching on the Polara in 90 degree weather and basically freaked out. Went from a little disorientation, then instantly went to nausea and chunks in drain pan, and capped off with full body cramps all at one time. Crazy scary! I was all over the cold h2o all day and still happened. Be careful overdoing it in the sun gentleman. Anyways so I took some downtime in shop to cool off and start this thread.
Be back shortly here with last night and today’s major progress. I’m going to button up engine bay tonight after 8:30 or so PST when it cools down.
I also have some really big questions from inexperience with Mopar for you guys. I have searched endlessly and really am scratching my head. If you’re still reading thanks. Back shortly!
Chad