Is it possible to add abs to an Imperial?

[64Imperial]

Hey I've been toying with the idea of figuring out a way to add abs to my 64. I've had a couple close calls with the brakes locking up and I'm wondering if it's even possible.

I know the later 60s and early 70s Imperials had a form of abs, but I bet it's pretty rare or not as effective anymore due to age.

I read a couple articles about using a late model abs system like from the late 80s or 90s car and adapting it to work on a classic car.

Any ideas? Thank you in advance!

 

[Davea Lux]

The vintage mopar ABS system was a POS and parts are non-existant. The problem that you are going to run into is that modern ABS brakes are computer operated. They use a series of wheel sensors that measure rotation to adjust braking power if a wheel starts to slide. Some also need a link to the PCM or other on board management hardware to function. The sensors read off of bumps on the bearing hub which your Imperial does not have. You would also have to figure out a way to mount the sensors on a hub assembly that was not designed for them. Next you would have to run the appropriate circuitry back to the computer. Most of the modern computers might not survive long on a static filled electrical system that was pre-computer in origin. I am not saying that with enough time and money it can't be done, but I suspect that it would be expensive, probably more that it would be worth.

Dave

 

[marko]

sounds like your brakes need adjusting, there is nothing wrong with the brakes on a 64 imperial other than the single pot master cylinder.
ive stood my 64 convert on its nose with no lockup ( and a 64 imp convert has at least 250 lbs over a coupe).
it was 71 when Sure-Brake anti skid control brakes were offered

 

[CBODY67]

When the Sure-Brake system came out, it was (and still is) unique in that it had TWO decel rates it worked off of, not just "on" or "off". Plus it was 4-wheel rather than just rear wheel (as Ford and GM first had, back then).

Two-whl anti-lock would be easier to do as you could just read driveshaft speed rather than individual wheel speed.

By observation, anti-lock can be better on slick surfaces (wet or icy) than on dirt/gravel.

With the better tires of modern times, I would suspect that Chrysler brakes would act better than when all we had was 5.5" wide tread tires. FWIW

In many cases, I suspect that a good driver can modulate the brake pedal pressure to keep the car at max decel reasonably well. Rather than the instinct to nail the brake pedal and not let up, which is what you are supposed to do with anti-lock systems. BTAIM

Just some observations,
CBODY67

 

[68NewportSportVert]

How old are your tires? Don't go by how they look! If they are more than about 8 years old replace them. If you are still having an issue then look into upgrading the brakes.

 

[1970FuryConv]

Hi 1964 Imperial,
I agree with antilock brakes not being worth the effort. You are looking at a huge amount of money and time. I disconnected the rear antilock brakes on my 1990 W150 and ran a direct line to the front brakes. Brakes have worked great ever since.

I also agree with @marko, that a dual master cylinder is a good idea. You can run the front brake line direct and the rear brake line with an in-line proportioning valve. The front brakes do most of the work, so you don’t want full pressure locking up your rear brakes while your front brakes are trying to stop the car. I bet Marko or @detmatt could recommend a good dual reservoir master cylinder.

I also agree with tightening your brake adjusters. If you don’t hear a slight drag when you spin the wheel in the air, they’re probably adjusted to lose.

Best of luck to you! Ben

 

[1978 NYB]

The vintage mopar ABS system was a POS and parts are non-existant. The problem that you are going to run into is that modern ABS brakes are computer operated. They use a series of wheel sensors that measure rotation to adjust braking power if a wheel starts to slide. Some also need a link to the PCM or other on board management hardware to function. The sensors read off of bumps on the bearing hub which your Imperial does not have. You would also have to figure out a way to mount the sensors on a hub assembly that was not designed for them. Next you would have to run the appropriate circuitry back to the computer. Most of the modern computers might not survive long on a static filled electrical system that was pre-computer in origin. I am not saying that with enough time and money it can't be done, but I suspect that it would be expensive, probably more that it would be worth.

Dave

You can get a complete modern brake system from Cleveland Power and Salvage. Problem is they want you to buy the complete pallet including engine/ txsm for $25k-$40k depending on mileage. Sometimes you can get specific systems like the Brembo brakes and ECM when someone only needs the engine. I would think you would need the Hellcat wheels to fit over the Brembo's too. I'm not sure if someone has made an ABS installation kit for a 64 Imp. Imp brakes have been a nightmare all the way through 1975.

 

[1978 NYB]

Magnumforce.com might be able to help with an installation kit and possibly a rack and pinion steering for the Imp.

 

[detmatt]

Hi 1964 Imperial,
I agree with antilock brakes not being worth the effort. You are looking at a huge amount of money and time. I disconnected the rear antilock brakes on my 1990 W150 and ran a direct line to the front brakes. Brakes have worked great ever since.

I also agree with @marko, that a dual master cylinder is a good idea. You can run the front brake line direct and the rear brake line with an in-line proportioning valve. The front brakes do most of the work, so you don’t want full pressure locking up your rear brakes while your front brakes are trying to stop the car. I bet Marko or @detmatt could recommend a good dual reservoir master cylinder.

I also agree with tightening your brake adjusters. If you don’t hear a slight drag when you spin the wheel in the air, they’re probably adjusted to lose.

Best of luck to you! Ben

This is what I bought on @marko ’s recommendation.
62 63 64 65 66 DODGE CHRYSLER PLYMOUTH DUAL CONVERSION MASTER CYLINDER | eBay

 

[Big_John]

This is what I bought on @marko ’s recommendation.
62 63 64 65 66 DODGE CHRYSLER PLYMOUTH DUAL CONVERSION MASTER CYLINDER | eBay

A couple bucks more and you can get one with the correct looking cover.

1960's Mopar Bendix Master Cylinder DRUM Brakes 1" Bore Dodge Plymouth Chrysler | eBay

For some reason, that generic aftermarket cover just rubs me the wrong way when I see it.

 

[chrysler_fan]

Hey I've been toying with the idea of figuring out a way to add abs to my 64. I've had a couple close calls with the brakes locking up and I'm wondering if it's even possible.

I know the later 60s and early 70s Imperials had a form of abs, but I bet it's pretty rare or not as effective anymore due to age.

I read a couple articles about using a late model abs system like from the late 80s or 90s car and adapting it to work on a classic car.

Any ideas? Thank you in advance!

Have you switched to disc (at least on the front) and still could not stop when needed?

 

[Nadir Point]

Have you switched to disc (at least on the front) and still could not stop when needed?

Pretty simple job, and really completely solves the braking issue for any sane driver.

 

[64Imperial]

Hey everyone sorry for the delay in responding, I have put disks in front with my original drums in the rear. Used a dual master cylinder with combination valve, new tires, new lines, new everything, you name it.

Then the rear drums were acting up, I could tell one would lock up and the other would only half work. I adjusted the emergency brake and reversed and braked a couple times, bled the lines again and everything seems to be adjusted okay.

Had a guy run right out in front of me while driving through town and not only did the brakes lock up while I was trying to feather them but I did a nose dive!

The rear drums are not functioning properly and I noticed the problem even when I'm doing normal braking, so I'm going to swap them to disks.

I'm actually in the middle of that process now. I'm hoping that this might at least cure the locking up problem because it seems like the rear drums must have been the problem all along!

Thanks everyone for your help and I'll let you know how this goes!

 

[Davea Lux]

Sounds like the proportioning valve is not adjusted properly.

Dave