Long ram cars. Inner fender access panels vs no access panels

[Ram Fury]

Furious and Sgt. Fury --
It looks there is a little of everything in this issue. From a couple of sources, including an original Ramcharger, I've found that when the first ram cars were coming down any of the production lines, the inner fender wells were "hand-modified" much in the fashion of the floorpans of the '65 Sport Fury had to be individually hand sawn to accept the shift linkage for the 4-speed manual (the rough cut is very obvious on my '65 426S SF), and the "removable" panel just sort of tacked back on afters. Since there were only some 1500 SonoRamic Plymouths in all of the 1960 model year, you can see why this was not a big issue at the start. Later on, the process was more formalized, but no document exists as to when this happened or what kind of tech instruction was given to cover the procedure and no part numbers were assigned to the lower panels. I do have the distinct impression that as the first ram car (hopefully it was a "Mule" or test car) was being dropped on its engine, someone suddenly realized there was an "OPPS!" and so that's how the trusty saw came out. However, factory reps did advise, on an informal basis, the dealers that the panels could be removed to change plugs as no written tech instruction appears to have been issued. When I acquired my first SonoRamic Commando in May 1960, I was told by the dealer's shop foreman shortly thereafter the reason for the panel was to facilitate plug changing.
Now as to the black (or non-body color) engine bays, according to Darrell Davis, this may have resulted from some damage occurring there at the factory (which was not that unusual), so the damaged parts would be replaced from stock. Evidently this happen at any plant and cannot be identified with any individual one. As you can tell, my current Big-Tailed Beast has the black engine bay. Darrell Davis thinks it may well have been a Mule for the St. Louis plant as it has very early parts (the swivel seats are '59 models) and it got its front end bashed about a bit there. After repair, it may well have been shipped to Colorado on 10-25-59 and then given to a factory rep (as was often done with such cars). Although I have the original invoice from Bill Goodro, there is no mileage indicated.
As to additional copies of Darrell's guides, no luck. Since you have a copy of the '61 guide, does he address the issue of the 413s in '65 being "Dealer Installed Options" rather than RPOs?
All in all, this has been very interesting.
Joe

 

[SGT FURY]

Here is a carb Xram pic. Body would not drop around Xram engine and sub frame on assembly line without inner panel cutouts.

 

[Ian Smale]

I don't know specifically about Long Ram cars and the fender apron colors on them or if all of them had the access panels or not, but I do know that in 1960 the Los Angeles plant painted the inner fender aprons black. I own a 1960 Saratoga 2 door hardtop. Before I restored the engine bay, I assumed that someone had repainted the fender aprons black. I scratched through the paint, and they were black all the way through. It was originally a semi glossy finish. The core support was also black. I've since seen photos of a number of other 1960 engine bays painted black, and the cars were assembled in the Los Angeles plant. It seems like all the other plants painted them body color, except for the Windsor, ON Canada plant, which also painted them black. Also, my car is very early production, built Oct 29, 1959. Here's a link to an album of my car 1960 Chrysler Saratoga

 

[Ram Fury]

Ian --
Check the earlier photo I posted of my very original and unrestored Big-Tailed Beast which came from the St. Louis plant. While it doesn't have the fender well removable panels, the engine compartment is black. Is it the same black as on your L.A. Chrysler?
Joe

 

[Ian Smale]

Ian --
Check the earlier photo I posted of my very original and unrestored Big-Tailed Beast which came from the St. Louis plant. While it doesn't have the fender well removable panels, the engine compartment is black. Is it the same black as on your L.A. Chrysler?
Joe

Joe, I don't know if the black was the same as yours. I used to refer to the engine bay as the "Black Hole" before I restored it. This is what it looks like now. Since this photo, I have installed the core air dam and installed an alternator.

 

[Ross Wooldridge]

Nice!

Welcome by the way @Ian Smale !

 

[Ram Fury]

Ian --
Although the Beast is original and unrestored, it does look much the same as yours with the black engine compartment. However, it really is kind of a mystery since it doesn't have the fender well panels yet is a documented production ram car. The ball joint carb linkage and 1959 swivel seats also make it somewhat of a dichotomy.
Joe

 

[Furious]

Ian --
Although the Beast is original and unrestored, it does look much the same as yours with the black engine compartment. However, it really is kind of a mystery since it doesn't have the fender well panels yet is a documented production ram car. The ball joint carb linkage and 1959 swivel seats also make it somewhat of a dichotomy.
Joe

That makes sense. The cars with black inner fenders and rad support were painted in pieces, then assembled, therefore, no need for the removable panels

 

[413]

Let’s reverse engineer this question. Look in the Darrel
Davis’ books on long rams cars. It has all the VIN numbers. The 4th digit of the VIN tells you where the car was made. 3 for Jefferson, 5 for LA.

Yes all LA cars had black inner fenders. So did they make any long ram cars in LA? Or were all the long ram cars built at the same plant?

All Long Ram 300’s were made in Michigan so they all have body colored inner fenders.
It would be really tough to work on the exhaust pipes and elbows without those inner fender cutouts. The plugs are just a minor inconvenience without the cutouts.

look in a service manual on these cars and see it they instruct you to remove the cutout panels to gain access for repairs.

@SGT FURY on the vac tanks behind the fender yes the long ram 300’s all have them. I’ve had 2 1960 New Yorkers 413-4bbl with those tanks also, just like the 60-61 300‘s have.

 

[Rustyrodknocker]

This is a little necro but it was my first read.
I had understood those panels to be for maintenance access. And for a dealer mechanic I'm sure they did that and to them they were good for it.
But the work can be done without the panel
And more importantly, the car cant be assembled in the traditional method without them.
Therefore the original use and purpose was for vehicle assembly.

 

[Furious]

It is an often repeated myth that the cut outs were for spark plug access.
For the cars with body coloured engine bays, the cut outs were needed to clear the long rams when the body drop happened on the assembly line.

Cars with black inner fenders were painted in pieces, then assembled, so these cars had no body drop-clearance issues.

For those familiar with 1972-73 Dodge trucks, it is the same situation. Some factories, particularly the plants here in Canada, painted the trucks in pieces, and then assembled them. These trucks have black rad supports, inner fenders and hood hinges.

But there were some US built 72-73 Dodge trucks that were assembled before paint, that have the whole engine bay painted body color.

Starting in 1974, this second method became the norm for Dodge trucks, since there was less risk for mismatched paint, scratching during assembly, and better panel alignment.