Modern engine in an old c-body?

[OneSinisterKid]

Here what I'm thinking.. I picked up a '73 Fury II coupe with a 318 last spring, excellent shape, almost no rust other than the subframe, extremely gutless tho so I picked up a '77 NYer in the fall with a 440 with 60k miles on her, tranny has less than 1k miles since it was rebuilt. The 440 will be rebuilt hopefully by next summer ready to drop in the fury.

Now before you all blast me for decapitating a perfectly good NYer, its not. The last owner had it for 10 years and drove it here and there, he had 10+ mopars kicking around. Before that it sat for years in a field for years, so the body is ruff along the bottom and the floors are shot. My plan was to strip and scrap it. Its been sitting in my yard since, its starting to grow on me..

So I will be left with a NYer shell and have been thinking about dropping in a more fuel efficient engine. I'm thinking of cutting the 440 in half (not litterally) and drop in a new 2012+ Pentastar 220ci V6 with either a 6spd manual or an 8spd ZF auto tranny. There should be loads of room in that engine bay.

With 305hp and 270ft.lbs. should be more than enough to move that big old boat and decently quick. The ram weight 4700lbs vs the 4800lbs of the NYer isn't much difference and it gets 25mpg. The 3700-4000lb 300/Charger gets 30mpg with the 3.6L. The 3.6L engine weights a little over 350lbs vs the 800lbs give or take of the 440 so that brings her down to 4400 lbs and should get me about 27-28 mpg. Could be easily be a daily driver in the summer.

My buddy has a 2014 Ram 3.6L 8spd and that thing gives my AWD Hemi Durango a run for its money. It really did surprise the hell outta me.

What are your thoughts or input so far?

 

[67Monaco]

Welcome. With the expense of the swap you'd be better off starting with the better car. But I'm on board. GLWB.

 

[tallhair]

Listen to this man ^^^^^

and welcome let's see some pics

 

[OneSinisterKid]

Thanks. I like to think outside the box...

View attachment 37110

There's the workhorse pulling the fury home. Truck has 359,000kms on her and has never let me down!

View attachment 37111

First car I built was a 97 Hyundai Accent GT, 1.5L (98hp) and after being told there is no way I can fit a Tiburon engine into it I went out and bought one and crammed it in there. That was 10 yrs ago and I still have it and drive it to work every summer and with 180hp now the thing is a little rocket at 2100lbs with I/h/e, cam, flywheel, MSD, throttle body off a v8 stang, prob more that I'm forgetting.. . Thing would beat just about any swapped Honda or GTI that lined up against me, it's even more fun beating $50,000+ cars in something that cost me $2000 to build including cost of car.

So anyway I'm always up for a challenge.. With the 3.6 being standard or an option in just about every new Dodge and Chrysler car in their lineup and over 3+ million engine already built in a few years they will be a dime a dozen and can already get one with 17,000km on it for $1000 they are bound to get way cheaper. As for tranny I can get a 6spd from a nitro for $750. The ZF 8spd is still $2g's+ at wreckers so I'm leaning towards cheaper 6spd. All in all should be do-able for under $2500 as I already have the car, I'd be doing all the work myself and with the help of a few buddies. There should be way less figment issues than a hemi as its a much smaller engine. I will need the engine harness and ecm (& chip key), all 3 pedals if going standard and just accelerator for ZF as well as TCM & harness. Not sure if the ecm relies on the FCM for anything. Seeing as I need floors I may be able to weld floor pan and tunnel from charger/300 than won't have to worry about tranny mount. We can figure out engine mounts as we go. Other than that a rad, gas tank?, am I missing anything else?

 

[Fratzog]

Welcome aboard. You seem to be a creative thinker. Couldn't see your pics for some reason...

 

[OneSinisterKid]

Welcome aboard. You seem to be a creative thinker. Couldn't see your pics for some reason...

I have no idea why, I followed the instructions in tallhair's SIG.. I hit preview and the showed up but once I posted it just showed as link.. If I click the they open the pic for me.. Can anyone help?

 

[commando1]

Holy crap but you are one imaginative guy!!
Welcome with a big W.

Posted via Topify on Android

 

[tallhair]

It happens once in a while. Try it again please.

I sent you my email if you have trouble

 

[68plymouth383]

Welcome!!

 

[OneSinisterKid]

That worked I think...

 

[polara71]

I have a hard time believing some of that...... The V6 while a nice little engine no way would I choose that over a 5.7 . The Challengers and Chargers are a heavy car. Heavier than most C bodies by about 800 pounds....The Hemi with a 5 speed auto will get 28 mpgs all day long

 

[67Monaco]

View attachment 37141View attachment 37142

That worked I think...

 

[bluefury361]

:sSig_greetingsthor: ...................
Sounds like you've got a great plan. The Fury will a much more enjoyable car with the 440.

But I would agree with Dave about a 5.7 over the six. It couldn't cost much more to do that, and the results would be a huge improvement. I think Ross, (stormer), has done that and might be able to offer some advise.

One of the great things about C bodys is that they respond well to mods and are inexpensive and unique. There are those cars that should be maintained as close to original as possible but for the most part ........ make it your own.

 

[Fishfan]

Welcome. With the expense of the swap you'd be better off starting with the better car. But I'm on board. GLWB.

I agree. Drop the new power plant in the Fury.

 

[moper]

I think the difference in the torque is the rpm it occurrs at. In that car I think it would feel like the slant 225 did, at least from a stop. But- people ordered and drove them so I'm not discounting. It's just nothing I'd want to drive.
So you're looking to get a whole newer car, pull out everything including the gages and all the wiring, go through that wiring to adapt everything to the car system, fab up the mounts and oil pan for it (remember the oil pan's going to hit - new cars have a rack and pinion - not steering linkage), fab up the trans mount and modify the floorpan, then drop it in, build the fuel system, and tell us how it goes!
Seems like a lot to me. At least the 5.7 has some aftermarket support to go carbureted and an oil pan to buy.

 

[68Bigred]

The engine to choose.. HELLCAT!!!! Id like to put that in my 300. There are a few e bodies running aroung here in austin with the 6.1 in them. Since my 300 mainly just sits I dont care about MPG, heck only run one take of gas per month if that, and I still feel I enjoy it enough. Now if she had A/C I may drive it more.

 

[70NPORT]

One of the great things about C bodys is that they respond well to mods and are inexpensive and unique.

Yup. Very well said.

 

[OneSinisterKid]

I agree the HELLCAT engine would be insane. Speaking of the devil the first production Challenger HELLCAT #001 rolled down the assembly line today! it'll be Viper Red and auctioned at the Barrett Jackson.*
The LX platform is not heavier than our c-bodies, they are 3700-4000lbs, trust me I work at the plant that builds them.*;-) I don't what Hemi you got that get 28mpg all day long with a 5spd. The LX's get 25mpg hwy with the 8spd and 23mpg hwy with 5spd.

Seeing at the ram starts at 4700lbs its closest in weight to our c-bodies, the 77 NYer is 4800lbs from what I found online. The ram Hemi gets 22mpg hwy with the 8spd and 20mpg hwy with the 5spd. I'm supposed to get 20mpg hwy on my HEMI truck and I average 16.5mpg in the summer and 14.8mpg in the winter and I do mostly hwy, about 95%. My buddy with the 2014 Ram 3.6 8spd actually averages 25mpg, that's a big difference when you do a 120 miles round trip daily.

The plan for the fury is old school muscle hence the 440, I think that just suits the fury a little more, Maybe down the road I'll change my mind and your right I would definitely go with a hemi, either 6.1 or 6.4 with a 6spd. But let's get realistic, around here the cheapest 5.7 hemi can find is an 05 for $1600 with 381,000kms(way too much for me), but anything with low miles is $2700-3500, plus the tranny, and all the extra parts. So that's bit more than I want to or can put in at the moment.

The fury came from an old man that had Alzheimer's and he hoarded spare parts for it before he lost his license, 6 skids worth that filled my Durango and a 6'x12' trailer. So I have just about everthing to fully restore that car with all new NOS parts, everything from brake lines, cables, steering and suspention parts, wires, engine parts, interior parts, panels you name it I probably have it. He even had a 8 3/4 '489' rear end in there with the parts. All I need is a subframe, I just tracked one from down south from a big block car the otherbut would need to ship it 3800kms. I just think the BB fits that car better, the 440 has a freshly rebuilt trans, the only thing with the engine is valve cover gaskets leak its got 62k miles on it. A fresh rebuild, increase compression and get it up to 5-600ft.lb I'll be happy with it. It'll be a Sunday driver I don't plan on getting rid of.

The NYer I'm not looking to dump much $$ into.. Nor am I looking for something insanely quick. If I can find a 3.6 and a 6spd manual for $12-1500 next summer, wiring wouldn't be much different than what I'd have to do for a hemi swap. If I can put together a 25+mpg boat for under $2500 I can cruise anywhere in, even to work it be pretty fun in my opinion since the fury will probably get me less than 10mpg. I could easily pull the NYer drive line if I find a better car down the road and swap it in or find a hemi ;-).

BTW there will be tons of aftermarket performance for the 3.6 if there already. Its still a new engine. They are gonna have a 420hp twin turbo 3.6L V6 for the mid size SRT vehicles.

Also was anyone able to see those pics?

 

[commando1]

Now that's just insane. Who would put a manual transmission in a New Yorker?
(Let me run with this one guys)

 

[polara71]

I just cant get into another lesson ............