Mysterious no crank - 383

Zezima

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So I know there's only so much one can help with situations where there's so many unknown factors at play, but figured I'd ask anyway to see if anyone had ideas at least.

It's a hard problem to describe, but I'll do my best. In simplest terms, the most immediate problem is the fact that it no longer cranks regardless of what's done to it. The other day I was able to start it consistently and easily, and when I took it out for a drive, I assume the carburetor was flooded when I applied more throttle than usual, and it hasn't really moved since, though it was able to start after that. However, the next day, there seems to be absolutely nothing no matter what's done to it. I've swapped between 3 different batteries, all of which have been charged and reconditioned coming in and going out, even had it hooked up to a live battery with booster cables and it still refused, though I was able to force the starter to click and whir momentarily with a remote starter switch, but there doesn't seem to be any spark anymore, which could be an easy and obvious diagnosis if it weren't idling so predictably so shortly ago. The alternator gauge responds to changes in current, the dash lights, headlights, and radio will come on, so there is current flowing through, but as of the last day, completely silent on key turn without taking some heavy intervention methods to force the starter to show it's still alive, which has me curious what it could be if the battery, starter, and alternator can all be proven good, or at least workable, would the carburetor being flooded really cause such non-response? And even before it went dead, when it would predictably start, it seemed to reliably kill batteries, or at least be unable to crank or start again after about 3 attempts from a fresh one, even if it would readily do it the first couple of times, usually by the third or fourth it would simply give up trying, but the accessories would always remain available. Another interesting tidbit is that the starter would click in response to the starter switch, but not from cranking the key, so perhaps the ignition switch is another factor, but can't be the cause when it still wouldn't crank with that bypassed, so I feel at a pretty decent loss at the moment. I'm sure there are other things I left out, just been trying to troubleshoot everything I can.
 
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Are the batteries Group 24 or Group 27 items? How old are they?

IF the starter is pulling that much juice, something should be smoking, I suspect.
 
Are the batteries Group 24 or Group 27 items? How old are they?

IF the starter is pulling that much juice, something should be smoking, I suspect.
The battery it came with when I bought it is a group 34, and I believe the others might be as well, though I'm pretty sure none of them are 24 or 27.

And so far, no smoke from anything surprisingly, just sparks when trying to manually bridge the connections.
 
What do you mean by "I was able to force the starter to click" and "heavy intervention methods to force the starter to show it's still alive"

What exactly did you do?
 
So you got power inside the car, right?
Check the connections at starter relay especislly the wire for neutral safety switch and plug for it on the drivers side of trans.
Try starting car in neutral ( chock the wheels!! Lol)
The shift linkage can ever be so slightly out of adjustment can cause a no start condition.
If it none of what I mentioned, swap out starter relay..cheap fix..
Hope this helps.
 
What do you mean by "I was able to force the starter to click" and "heavy intervention methods to force the starter to show it's still alive"

What exactly did you do?
I mentioned I used a remote starter switch. You can also use a piece of metal to contact the two starter wires to create direct continuity.
So you got power inside the car, right?
Check the connections at starter relay especislly the wire for neutral safety switch and plug for it on the drivers side of trans.
Try starting car in neutral ( chock the wheels!! Lol)
The shift linkage can ever be so slightly out of adjustment can cause a no start condition.
If it none of what I mentioned, swap out starter relay..cheap fix..
Hope this helps.
Appreciate the advice, I'll try what you recommended, didn't think about the shift linkage or neutral being possible causes, I'll see what I can find out, thanks.
 
@cbarge I did manage to get a couple faint clicks while in neutral, so that did help a bit, but something else is definitely up. So it's likely either the neutral safety switch on the trans end or the starter relay, I'll update with whatever I find out, feels good to narrow it down at least.
 
I agree with checking the starter relay and assuring the wire from the starter relay to the Park Neutral Safety Switch has ground.

However, since you still have the problem using remote starter switch, I'd test starter draw,

Starter Draw
  1. Connect ammeter at battery positive
  2. Disable ignition and crank engine
  3. Draw s/b: 50-1125A for 4 cyl, 75-175A for 6 or small 8 cyl, 100-275A large 8 cyl all while battery voltage does not drop below 9.6V.
  4. Draw too high > short in starter, starter binding, bind at engine
  5. Draw too low > low battery, resistance in wiring, or worn brushes
My guess, because you have gone through 3 batteries, is that draw is too high. Good luck!
 
Starter relay first...simple fix..under the hoid
if that does not fix it, starter is pooched....time to crawl under...
 
Only way I can get it to consistently crank is by jostling it in neutral, so I assume shift linkage issues. It cranked only once or twice in park, the other 98 times were all in neutral, and only after finagling it around. Now that I have a better idea of how to start it, I can more consistently get it to run now, so that's an improvement, though even when cranking it takes a while for it to start, but it will eventually.
 
If there is no slack/wear in the pivot points in the shift linkage, then it might be the neutral safety switch itself. Drain some atf before removing the switch from the lh side of the trans case . . . with a catch PAN below the transmission itself. Check the wiring plug-in at the switch, too.
 
If there is no slack/wear in the pivot points in the shift linkage, then it might be the neutral safety switch itself. Drain some atf before removing the switch from the lh side of the trans case . . . with a catch PAN below the transmission itself. Check the wiring plug-in at the switch, too.
I'll definitely look into those when I get the chance, I do have a replacement neutral safety switch in hand now.

Though I forgot to mention when it does run it idles ridiculously low, usually barely on the edge of stalling out, it runs smooth when the throttle is held at higher RPMs, but it's very difficult to keep it from dipping unreasonably low on idle with pedal off, redid the adjustments on the idle mixture screws as well as the idle stop and still doesn't seem enough to keep it up without manually holding the throttle. Occasionally if you let go of the pedal gently enough it'll stay idling closer to where it should be, but most of the time not. Wonder if it's the cable or the choke, or something else entirely.
 
I'm suspecting the base timing is correct? Check for any movement in the throttle shaft in the carb base area, which might explain the inconsistency of the idle speed.
 
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