Nick in crank journal, machine shop or??

[Sir Dodge alot]

really shouldn't be doing that in the engine...should be doing that with the crank on an engine stand, followed by a thorough cleaning of all the passages...all the grit is going into the oil holes which connect the rod bearings to the main bearings...recipe for disaster

Thank you for voicing your concerns, I do realize it's foolish, what else can I do differently?

The engine will still be further disassembled for an entire rebuild is in motion.

There's an engine stand & I've got the engine sitting on right now, I need another one? Just for the crank? Or just moving the crank to a separate bench if able?

Not exactly the most sterile place, but this is what I have concerning bench space or what's used for.

Question; doesn't the machine shop hot tank the block to remove most of if not all foreign material?

I mean I have yet to give the block & crank a thorough once over and I haven't even yet started blueprinting the block.
Well anywho, once I've got my pay for next month I've got my sights on the machine shop to take the block/crank to get their qualified eye lookers to give the parts a once over.

 

[volksworld]

ok that's another story...I was afraid you were gonna polish it like that and slam it back together as is...

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

ok that's another story...I was afraid you were gonna polish it like that and slam it back together as is...

Oh not at all sir, tearing into an engine is one of those places you don't want to "F around and find out" lol.

I intend to take my time with this engine to ensure every part has been meticulously looked over and if need be, machine shop. My first engine rebuild won't be something where I just "slap stick" things together, otherwise, I wouldn't consider uncorking an unmolested original engine.

Also, was inspecting the valves earlier.
In particular, this exhaust valve is literally "exhausted" with being in this engine, time for a new exhaust valve, maybe 1.74 valves?

I hear that the 516 heads are a bit more finicky to install bigger valves without breaking into a water jacket? Or was it the other way around where the porting will have to be more conservative?

Pictures below what Dodge the engine is going into once the rebuild is done.

 

[Fireflite56]

As long as you remove any part of the nick that's protruding above the surface of the journal and make sure it's back to flush, you'll be fine; a slight indent is okay. I also did this, but to the crankshaft. The machine shop that did the block work took care of these for me, but that's all they did was to take down the high points. I'm sure you could do this on your own if you take your time and use the right tools.

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

As long as you remove any part of the nick that's protruding above the surface of the journal and make sure it's back to flush, you'll be fine; a slight indent is okay. I also did this, but to the crankshaft. The machine shop that did the block work took care of these for me, but that's all they did was to take down the high points. I'm sure you could do this on your own if you take your time and use the right tools.

Gotcha, thanks.
Still working at it, I've got the journal now pretty smooth, going to make some measurements if any high points are left.

(First picture: to the left of the journal 3 distinct nicked lines)

(Second picture: using as a quality check, the wear marks going around the circumference of the journal)

 

[Big_John]

Got around to getting some Micrometers and mechanical dial calipers, here's what I was able to measure the crank connecting rod journals.
The readings are:

Connecting rod journals #1 #2
2.370
Connecting rod journals #3 #4
2.370
Connecting rod journals #5 #6
2.370
Connecting rod journals #7 #8
2.370

The crank big end journals doesn't seem to be oblong so I guess that's good?
View attachment 722842

You are going to have to use something better than the cheap calipers to measure the crank accurately. They are great for a quick measurement, but not for this.

Good calipers are only good to +/- .001". Out of the box "no name" Chinese calipers are all over the place, although I've been able to tweak most of them to the +/- .001" accuracy.

You really need to use a good pair of micrometers to measure the journal diameter. Those measurements you've posted are questionable to me (aside from the calipers) as you've mentioned the block being stamped .010 undersize crank journals. 2.3740-2.3750" being the nominal standard size. (Note I called out the 4th decimal place). To my knowledge, I haven't seen a .004 or .005" undersize bearing, so if the measurements are accurate, you're looking at grinding the crank. Noting the burnt valve and the condition of the journals, it doesn't surprise me if the journals are worn this far.

I kind of understand the reluctance to use a machine shop for this, as everything they do isn't cheap. But the alternative is you put the engine back together and have to take it back apart to do it correctly. I think that's where you are right now.

OK, appreciate the advice sir.
If that's the case I'll be looking for a oil that is high on zinc, maybe not the same viscosity grade.

Zinc only helps with cam and lifter wear. Does nothing for loose bearings.

 

[Big_John]

In particular, this exhaust valve is literally "exhausted" with being in this engine, time for a new exhaust valve, maybe 1.74 valves?

I hear that the 516 heads are a bit more finicky to install bigger valves without breaking into a water jacket?

IMHO, I don't think you want to go to a bigger valves in your 361. Less is more.

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

You are going to have to use something better than the cheap calipers to measure the crank accurately. They are great for a quick measurement, but not for this.

Good calipers are only good to +/- .001". Out of the box "no name" Chinese calipers are all over the place, although I've been able to tweak most of them to the +/- .001" accuracy.

You really need to use a good pair of micrometers to measure the journal diameter. Those measurements you've posted are questionable to me (aside from the calipers) as you've mentioned the block being stamped .010 undersize crank journals. 2.3740-2.3750" being the nominal standard size. (Note I called out the 4th decimal place). To my knowledge, I haven't seen a .004 or .005" undersize bearing, so if the measurements are accurate, you're looking at grinding the crank. Noting the burnt valve and the condition of the journals, it doesn't surprise me if the journals are worn this far.

I kind of understand the reluctance to use a machine shop for this, as everything they do isn't cheap. But the alternative is you put the engine back together and have to take it back apart to do it correctly. I think that's where you are right now.


Zinc only helps with cam and lifter wear. Does nothing for loose bearings.

Ok, thanks. Appreciate the words of wisdom, changing over to the Micrometers now.
Jotting down the readings and triple checking at the moment.

That's very much true, even though I'd like to NOT go to the machine shop, it's a good investment.
Currently Seeing if any "local" machine shops in my area that is reputable.

Sorry for the incorrect decimal to number placements, actually was my first time learning & using dial calipers, I'm going to study on how to read the Micrometers now.

The 15W-40 Diesel oil i was using actually just for that purpose, to minimize wear on the cam/lifters, but this was from another 361 I was using, the engine disassembled now is not the engine I was using the diesel oil in.

In fact, the oil that came out of the current disassembled engine was mostly sludge, someone didn't do the oil changes on time.

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

IMHO, I don't think you want to go to a bigger valves in your 361. Less is more.

Oh ok, I'll inspect the other exhaust valves more closer for questionable damage.

Question; Doesn't using smaller exhaust valves improve low end torque, while bigger exhaust valves improve mid range to top end power??

 

[Big_John]

Sorry for the incorrect decimal to number placements, actually was my first time learning & using dial calipers, I'm going to study on how to read the Micrometers now.

Actually, the ".000" is correct for dial calipers. Once you start getting into using mics correctly, that ".0000" starts needing to be used for things like this.

 

[Big_John]

Oh ok, I'll inspect the other exhaust valves more closer for questionable damage.

Question; Doesn't using smaller exhaust valves improve low end torque, while bigger exhaust valves improve mid range to top end power??

Chances are all the exhaust valves have excessive wear on the stems and will need to be replaced. Nature of the beast.

Yes, that is true about valve size. Just remember you have a small displacement, small bore engine. Big valves won't help much, especially with the small bore helping to shroud the valve. A 361 is basically a torquey engine that they used in a lot of cars and trucks. Play to its strengths.

I'm curious. What are you going to do for pistons?

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

Chances are all the exhaust valves have excessive wear on the stems and will need to be replaced. Nature of the beast.

Yes, that is true about valve size. Just remember you have a small displacement, small bore engine. Big valves won't help much, especially with the small bore helping to shroud the valve. A 361 is basically a torquey engine that they used in a lot of cars and trucks. Play to its strengths.

I'm curious. What are you going to do for pistons?

Yes, some of the valves did not willingly slide out, some had a carbon/varnish ridge (sort of like the lifters) that kept them in place. The ID of some of the valve guides has some nasty pitting.

I had adamantly planned on re-using the pistons,
(361 pistons being expensive to replace from EGGE engines) the cylinder bores have faint cross hatching left with minimal vertical scuffing, the piston skirts still has the crosshatch that to my knowledge is factory cross hatches.

The bore also had a very minimal ridge, I figured I'd leave the ridge alone as it's the only true part of the bore that is factory.

I was careful to not potentially break the ring or the piston ring land with the ridge still in place on some of the cylinders.

Most of not all cylinders had no ridge, a select few had a ridge but nothing substantial that would signify an reamer, or a overbore is necessary in my needs.

I'll swing by the store and see if I can get a bore indicator, another tool for the tool box!

 

[73Coupe]

You are going to have to use something better than the cheap calipers to measure the crank accurately. They are great for a quick measurement, but not for this.

Good calipers are only good to +/- .001". Out of the box "no name" Chinese calipers are all over the place, although I've been able to tweak most of them to the +/- .001" accuracy.

You really need to use a good pair of micrometers to measure the journal diameter. Those measurements you've posted are questionable to me (aside from the calipers) as you've mentioned the block being stamped .010 undersize crank journals. 2.3740-2.3750" being the nominal standard size. (Note I called out the 4th decimal place). To my knowledge, I haven't seen a .004 or .005" undersize bearing, so if the measurements are accurate, you're looking at grinding the crank. Noting the burnt valve and the condition of the journals, it doesn't surprise me if the journals are worn this far.

I kind of understand the reluctance to use a machine shop for this, as everything they do isn't cheap. But the alternative is you put the engine back together and have to take it back apart to do it correctly. I think that's where you are right now.


Zinc only helps with cam and lifter wear. Does nothing for loose bearings.

Then there's the correct methods to take measurements using the mic. Clean and dry journal (brake clean bath), dial in the mic with the ratchet feature, rub it and listen for the squeaks...

Back in my younger days the local shop let me borrow a mic for this same purpose, I took it home and had no idea what I was doing, went back to the shop and they showed me how to use it correctly.

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

Then there's the correct methods to take measurements using the mic. Clean and dry journal (brake clean bath), dial in the mic with the ratchet feature, rub it and listen for the squeaks...

Back in my younger days the local shop let me borrow a mic for this same purpose, I took it home and had no idea what I was doing, went back to the shop and they showed me how to use it correctly.

Yes sir, i'm still practicing using the mic, I'll figure out what the readings mean, and how to read them.

Thanks for the mic using advice.

 

[Just Carbs]

Yes, some of the valves did not willingly slide out, some had a carbon/varnish ridge (sort of like the lifters) that kept them in place. The ID of some of the valve guides has some nasty pitting.

I had adamantly planned on re-using the pistons,
(361 pistons being expensive to replace from EGGE engines) the cylinder bores have faint cross hatching left with minimal vertical scuffing, the piston skirts still has the crosshatch that to my knowledge is factory cross hatches.

The bore also had a very minimal ridge, I figured I'd leave the ridge alone as it's the only true part of the bore that is factory.

I was careful to not potentially break the ring or the piston ring land with the ridge still in place on some of the cylinders.

Most of not all cylinders had no ridge, a select few had a ridge but nothing substantial that would signify an reamer, or a overbore is necessary in my needs.

I'll swing by the store and see if I can get a bore indicator, another tool for the tool box!

Those 361s are really good motors for driving.
The old heads don't like unleaded gas, so new guides, seats and valves should be coming your way anyway.
Removing the ridge and keeping the old pistons sounds like a good option to me.
My 64 New Yorker has the standard high compression 93 premium gas guzzling border line pre-ignition 413 monster motor in it. I would much prefer the little low compression 361 two barrel.

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

Those 361s are really good motors for driving.
The old heads don't like unleaded gas, so new guides, seats and valves should be coming your way anyway.
Removing the ridge and keeping the old pistons sounds like a good option to me.
My 64 New Yorker has the standard high compression 93 premium gas guzzling border line pre-ignition 413 monster motor in it. I would much prefer the little low compression 361 two barrel.

Yes sir! I've been going to college for about 4 years or so, and have been daily driving my 64' Dodge custom 880.

Off and on driving as a reliable daily for about 10 years or so.

But I have learned that the 361 is more daily driver friendly, leave the 383's and 400/413/426/440 for those that are asking for more from their Chryslers.

The 361 doesn't get too bad of MPG's, had a time I managed to hit 19/21 MPG on a long trip.

Now, not to discount the valve recession that you mentioned, the interesting thing is I have not seen any form of valves being sunk in their "seats"

I assume it's the weak valve springs that's keeping the valve recession at bay.

Either that, or the non existent "seats" have been tempered from numerous heat cycles.

All in all, the 361's are underrated as a big block, just doesn't get the praise like it's bigger brother engines.

 

[Just Carbs]

Yes sir! I've been going to college for about 4 years or so, and have been daily driving my 64' Dodge custom 880.

Off and on driving as a reliable daily for about 10 years or so.

But I have learned that the 361 is more daily driver friendly, leave the 383's and 400/413/426/440 for those that are asking for more from their Chryslers.

The 361 doesn't get too bad of MPG's had a time I managed to hit 19/21 MPG on a long trip.

Now, not to discount the valve recession that you mentioned, the interesting thing is I have not seen any form of valves being sunk in their "seats"

I assume it's the weak valve springs that's keeping the valve recession at bay.

Either that, or the non existent "seats" have been tempered from numerous heat cycles.

All in all, the 361's are underrated as a big block, just doesn't get the praise like it's bigger brother engines.

Well, start collecting more parts. Anything you can get your hands on at a price (rock bottom) you like.
Go to RockAuto, find your car listing, drop to the bottom of the listings and push the WHOLE SALE/CLOSE OUT button.
If you haven't already done so.

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

Well, start collecting more parts. Anything you can get your hands on at a price (rock bottom) you like.
Go to RockAuto, find your car listing, drop to the bottom of the listings and push the WHOLE SALE/CLOSE OUT button.
If you haven't already done so.

Yes sir, I have been perusing parts, mostly cams and bearings but I have not bought any yet, still need the tools to install said parts once I have acquired them.

Have acquired a Micrometer and a dial indicator in the recent weeks and have been practicing on how to use them, mostly the micrometer is giving me trouble, I never had the smarts with arithmetics.
Cheers.

 

[73Coupe]

Yes sir, i'm still practicing using the mic, I'll figure out what the readings mean, and how to read them.

Thanks for the mic using advice.

Step up to the mic!

 

[Sir Dodge alot]

Had some practice using the micrometer, not confident this is correct, but the crank rod journals is coming out to .3760 thousandths. Something still doesn't sound right, doing a bit more measuring to confirm whether this is correct or not.

Measured another crank journal and it's coming out to .3768.

Either my calculations are wrong or this crank is oblong/warped.
Homework time.