Paris is Burning

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I Discovered Hitchens not long ago and he Quickly became one of my new Hero's.

I personally find it easier to believe that a C body came down the Jefferson Assembly plant line without any input from engineers or other persons than I can to believe that we as human beings living in the universe that we are aware of, with all of its incredible complexity, simply evolved through random chance or other means and doesn't have a divine creator. I find the religion of Atheism to be ludicrous like many of the others. And I can think for my self just fine without having anyone or any religion tell me what to believe. But I too respect your right to your views as well. And I don't consider myself particularly religious either. But I do believe that having a personal relationship with our creator is all that makes life worth living and our souls content. But we can all agree that these barbaric acts perpetrated on humanity are evil and those responsible should be wiped out.
 
I personally find it easier to believe that a C body came down the Jefferson Assembly plant line without any input from engineers or other persons than I can to believe that we as human beings living in the universe that we are aware of, with all of its incredible complexity, simply evolved through random chance or other means and don't have a divine creator. I find the religion of Atheism to be ludicrous like many of the others. And I can think for my self just fine without having anyone or any religion tell me what to believe. But I too respect your right to your views as well. And I don't consider myself particularly religious either. But I do believe that having a personal relationship with our creator is all that makes life worth living and our souls content. But we can all agree that these barbaric acts perpetrated on humanity are evil and those responsible should be wiped out.
Whether there is a God or not is a Answer no one Can say for Certain. Carl Sagan said " It is as irrational to say there isn't a God as to say there is" I like to think there may be something but I don't not Subscribe too A lot that "Entails" with believing in a God. He loves everybody but Hates Gays?? And is a Jealous, Vengeful Presence, Who you half to Fear? What the hell is that? That sounds more Like a Dictator to me, We don't Worship Hitler. There is a Difference Between Fear and Love and Most of us Look through the Eyes of Fear.

Frank Zappa said "The Whole idea of Christianity is Based on the idea that Intellectualism is the Work of the Devil. The Fruit that was Forbidden was on the Tree of Knowledge, You eat the Apple you will be as smart as God and We cant have that"

So if you "Believe" a Guy lived in a Fish for 3 days or a 500 year old Man but 2 of everything in a Boat or the World is 5000 Years old, Sorry but you are Very Ignorant Case closed.

Religion is a Way to keep us in Check and in Control. Free thinking and Imagination and Not Encouraged in our Society. That is why we don't fund the Arts, That is why We Say Pot is Evil and is Illegal, Yet Alcohol, A Drug that does nothing to you Spiritually and which is the 3rd Cause of Unnecessary Death is Perfectly Legal and Advertised as Such to make you think, That by "Drinking you will some how be Cool and be Surrounded by Women" and Notice you never see Anti-Alcohol Commercials like you do with Smoking. Hmm wonder why that is....I guess my point is. Too Always Question EVERYTHING and to Always Question Authority, Whether that be the Law or Some Divine Presence. And to Think for your self.
 
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I am of the opinion that we are condemned to repeat historic calamities unless we gain freedom from religion which I consider institutionalized brain washing. I know you disagree and I respect that but unless we support each others right to hold divergent opinions what separates us from them?

I may or may not agree with you. That would be a good topic over a beer at Carlisle or Moparfest sometime.
I have a right to my beliefs. I do not have a right to inflict them on others that believe different than I do.

Here's what I do know....

When you piss off Russia, the USA, England, France, Israel, (all nuclear countries by the way) Australia, Germany and a couple of other countries in a secondary ring, some really nasty **** is going to fall on your head.
 
I believe religion is good, and I can give personal examples. and, Guns can be good, as I can give personal examples. However, if either is used in the wrong way, they both can be very bad.
 
Anything that requires the suspension of reason is exactly the problem.

I know what you mean, but you can't cut down the tree that makes you live.
i know that in the USA there are many diffrent belivers and some may be extrem too or religion may have a more persistant place than in France but what you says is wrong. You make a generality.

You may belive that people were equal in the past ( intelletually i mean ) and religion came to brake this fact. You make a major historical mistake : you think the past with your modern way of thinking.
for exemple : christianity was barbaic because they do not educate people to maintain them into darkness. So i did not choose a good exemple because even a 5 year old child can tell that it is historically not true ( jeanne d'Arc for exemple ) but it is the transposition of the 20's century concept into the middle ages si it is obvious that you will find a problem.

Christianity never suspended reason, people at different times made with what their evolution allowed them.
Christianity developped litterature and printing, ok it was not for **** books or free modern art, but the major diffrence with islam was that christians kept many books, their treasures were in libraries ( etier to pray the lord, either to contradict a book ). muslims burnt everything, there is only 1 book to have.
This at dirrent eras of evolution so there was ups and downs for both of them, but what matters is the backbone behind the facts.

Another huge argument is that in christianity this is allowed do disscuss the religion, to ask for meaning, and there is for some christians the clergy : some people tell other the meaning of the bible. how can you cay that it is the suspension of reason when it's exactly the opposite ! people teaching others !
You can tell me : " yes but they teacjed to kill other people " okay but i'll tell you that they teached to save and respect them too. Only the christians did that since the 9th century and the first letters from the pope angainst slavery( unum est, jean VIII). and only the chistians ended slavery that continues to happens in islamic countries ( before isis ).

What about achitecture, when you visit the cathedrals, it is not a symbol of suspension of reason. What about painting and arts in geneal ? okay religion did not allowed everything but it did not prohibit too.
 
I'm not going to add much to this conversation other than I think things are beyond the point of return at this point. The only other thing I will add from own personal experiences is that some would be surprised at some of the countries that condemn our military still to this day and some people are clueless as to some cultures that would love to completely destroy our culture because they don't agree with our cultural beliefs. I'm sure some of you veterans like myself know what I'm talking about. Anyways, I can only hope the best for everyone at this point.
 
There is an afterlife.May yours be a good one.
Prayers and thoughts to those suffering in Paris. Too bad there weren't good men with guns close by.
 
I believe in a higher power. No, I'm not a Bible thumper or go to church on Sunday's. But I'll tell you this.... I have defended your right to believe in whatever you want to believe in for the last 40 years (my entire adult life)...and will continue to do that to my last breath or my last bullet....whatever comes first! I am a Soldier For Life!

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It may be a hard pill to swallow, but try USA, Israel and Saudi Arabia. Your country is NOT being run by Americans, by the way.
 
Where is ISIS getting all this money from?
From Arabs, Islamics, and Muslims.
Some of the money is probably coming out the American taxpayers pocket. Their military training comes from our own CIA . Allot of this could end tomorrow if we clean up the corruption in our own government.
 
i do not want to uspet you all but it seems that ISIS get weapons from the US too.
Isis totally wiped out the first christians, a culture that was direclty came from 2000 years ago. People were talking the same language the jesus, there was several monastery from the 5th century, before the islamic faith... You dropped a nuclear bomb on the japanese for less than that...
 
They could blow away half the German Population and our government would still be ruling out retaliation strikes.
 
yeah.. 20 bombs.. even the sand of the desert is laughing.

You Us people like to talk about the WWII. On Dresde, 4000 Tons of bombs were dropped on the city over 2 days in 1945. I think it's much more than 20 bombs.
 
Have you got any links about this Christian people being wiped out? Cheers.
 
Here is a long but interesting piece on ISIS and what they really want.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Here is an example from their chief spokesman: "In September, Sheikh Abu Muhammad al-Adnani, the Islamic State’s chief spokesman, called on Muslims in Western countries such as France and Canada to find an infidel and “smash his head with a rock,” poison him, run him over with a car, or “destroy his crops.” To Western ears, the biblical-sounding punishments—the stoning and crop destruction—juxtaposed strangely with his more modern-sounding call to vehicular homicide. (As if to show that he could terrorize by imagery alone, Adnani also referred to Secretary of State John Kerry as an “uncircumcised geezer.”)".

Since we have no way to know who feels what way in that faith, we are in for a lot more to come.
 
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